Selling magic power in Market (Magic potions OR Magic spells)

TheKeeper

Magic Potions (MP) System: Wizards produce Magic Potions (MP), with output varying by race, magic school ratio, and magical technologies. For instance, an Elf with 100 wizards, an optimal school ratio, and all technologies might generate 110 MP, while a Dwarf with limited schools and no tech might yield 20 MP. MP can be traded in the market like iron or wood. In the magic menu, players choose between casting spells with wizards or using MP, with MP being far more potent.

Scrolls System: Scrolls, each with a unique spell and potency level, are sold as market items. When used, they grant kingdom-wide benefits, with duration tied to the scroll’s creation potency. The spell success can vary based on the caster’s skill and external factors For instance, a high-potency scroll crafted by an Elf with advanced tech might last 12 turns, while a low-potency scroll from a novice Dwarf mage lasts 1 turn.

Cora

TheKeeper I can see benefits to using each of these systems. Is it possible to implement both or is that too complicated?

Lord Thane

trupheus

There needs to be a lot of thought put into this before moving forward.

Lord Thane

trupheus I spent 2 morning poo sessions thinking about it, if that's not enough then idk what is.

trupheus

Lord Thane

need at least 4 cigar sessions. maybe a long walk. go stare at a tree for a while. no less than 6 rubber ducky conversations.

Lord Thane

Leo

If i understand correctly MP is an output of "wizards used" including tech, racial, school ratio bonuses/debuffs.

Under Spells Dropdown menu Magic Potion will be added. Caster selects this inputs wizards used and it creates a tradeable and usable Magic Potion.

Using it factors target's land, magical resistance and desired spell and returns the result.

So my vote goes there.

Lord Thane

Leo I think my main reason for wanting to go with scrolls is because I believe I could have built it as a totally self contained system within the market, which is already currently sectioned off from the rest of the game really well, in the games code.

I like it being sectioned off, where it's not touching other parts of the game, for stability.

I think MP will need to get more deeply embedded into the magic system, which is very complex as it is, so maybe it will be more prone to bugs.

Basically MP is the opposite as the Adaptive Power Scrolls, as far as dev goes = MP will add bloat to magic system and be incredibly easy to add to the market, whereas APS will add bloat to the market and be fairly difficult to add to the market. The thing is Magic is already incredibly bloated, while the Market is extremely lean, so adding more bloat to one is worse than the other.

I'm fine with using either one. I mean, it's pretty much the same result either way. Kinda get the feeling MP will be worse for buyers if they have to cast with it and potentially fail, but that's fine - if it's less valuable than a theoretical APS then the open market will adjust the price accordingly.

Leo

Lord Thane

My update after having some driving meditation.

I still vote for a Magic Potion but it is better introduce it with the concept of Mana as a resource.

Mana = Spell Power (factoring: Wizards used, School:Land ratio, Racial and Tech Buffs/Debuffs, Random factor)

I agree with the logic trupheus posted here: https://forum.thardferr.com/d/215-spell-success/28

Spell power vs Spell Diffuculty, Target's Land, Target's Magical Resistance, Random Factor -> Determines the success of the spell.

In game:

Magic section now includes below in addition to Resting wizards, Available wizards, Wizards used
Available Mana:
Mana Used:
A kingdom can select Magic Potion from the dropdown menu of Available Spells. Inputs "wizards used" and clicks cast.
A tradable and usable Magic Potion is created with a "Mana" value.

Once the potion is used, the user kingdom gains Mana as resource (24h time limited maybe?) where they can use to cast spells.

Let me Introduce some questions to be discussed as well (and my answers)

Offensive spells can be cast using Mana? (undecided)
Available spells to be cast using Mana will be according to user kingdom's magic tech tree? (Yes)
What to do with Gate? (Gate cannot be cast using Mana as resource)
Needed spell power to cast spells should be reworked? (Yes please)

trupheus

Leo

+1 for windshield contemplation.

MP creates a new resource in the game.

Would an elf be able to harvest their own MP and use it to supplement their own spells? Maybe I want to cast a giant EQ on someone and the extra juice from MP gets it there.

In my head I’m seeing Mana Pots generated by wizards via the Spell screen. On the Magic screen there’s a new field for MP used. All MP are weighted equally but the ability of a race to generate MP is different. Since Human are the “neutral” magic race with no buff they’re a 1. Elf are a 2. Then from there I can’t remember who is the worst at magic but I think it’s dwarf. Dwarf at .5. Gnome, Orc, Undead at .75.

If 100 human wizards can create 10 MP, it would take an elf 50, dwarf 200, gnome orc undead 150. I think.

Mana potions can be used for anything (I think this helps every race except gnome and undead with utilizing Gate due to large army sizes).

Xliest

trupheus the stated system already restricts the use of both MP and wizards for casting the same spell instance, but theoretically you could store MP to make it so that you cast a powerful spell from only a small amount of wizards. I see it working one way but it’s unclear if the devs are going to implement the vision or something else. MP should only be used for self spells if it is implemented GB and Gate also no, so really only the big 4 NG GC Bless and Farsee it could be that there are two drop downs one is for wizard spells anything you can cast and one with only four choices for MP