CLI pre/re

Sayer

What if retal rights weighed attacking KD KS?

For instance, if Im at 10k KS and attack someone at 7k and get a castle and drop them to 4k ks. Because I hit at 70%, I can be pre/re by any combination of kingdoms that make 130% of my KS. So if I hit 12k while the retal is active I can be hit by two kingdoms who's KS does not exceed 15.6K KS.

Attacking kingdom still gets CLI to precent passing, so the person with a retal can designate their chosen ally to pre for them so long as they are within the KS total.

That way you cant castle pass after bottom feeding, you only pass land, and the designated pretal and retal could break through either way.

Sayer

Another possibility, dont award retal rights to kingdoms if they are broke by smaller kingdoms within a % range. Don't allow tiny kingdoms to snipe larger kingdoms that cant take a retal, but make it so there is some disadvantage to outpacing the rest of the game. This being implemented with a pretal token that a kingdom can send to an ally that can only be used if both pre andnretalling kingdoms fall within a KS % range would nullify castle passing and take some of the toxicity out of the game. It would create a natural downside to bottom feeding. All.while keeping aspects of original game in tact that people love.

Sayer

@Lord Thane @TheKeeper

Thoughts on above?

Lord Thane

For the first idea, I'm not sure building a rule to allow pre-re into a system designed to prevent pre-re is going to work. It sounds like it will make the pre-re even more powerful, as the ones using it will be completely unstoppable against players that don't.

For the second idea, it seems too powerful for the up-hitters that they can hit without facing retal. While in other situations someone can make an attack and be facing 2 retals for it. It would call for micromanagement of KS, and smaller pool of kds in range for everyone.

It's good brainstorming, but I can't see either of them helping the spirit of CLI, or making a better warring experience for most players.

It got me thinking of another potential cli tweak though, if we put a cutoff of say <70% ks then the attacker gets no cli. That could help deter bottom feeding since the attacker faces risk of pre-re. Maybe that's the point you were trying to make with the first idea?

skigglez

Lord Thane
That last point is a good idea

Sayer

Lord Thane I think the question is IF completely getting rid of pre re is the answer, or making it so that the purpose of pre re is to be able to fight larger kingdoms and not be used in a toxic manner.

A pre could be valid only if the initial kingdom bottom feeds. The defending kingdom then gets a pretal token to send to an ally. That pretal token can only be used by a kingdom whose KS is capped when added to the kingdom who sent it VS the original attacking kingdom KS.

Cli could prohibit bottom feeding as stated in your last post and then make it so a large kingdom cant castle pass to an ally to remain completely untouchable. They still get their castle protection from cli but the pretal token can be used in accordance with the retal they gave, albeit by two much smaller kingdoms. Balance could be set so defending is still possible, but so is battling bottom feeders.

The pretal might rarely break but it would atleast give smaller kingdoms and casual players a means of having some sort of possible retribution.

If you attack kingdoms within your size limit, pretal does not exist and kingdoms can enjoy the attrition strategy of CLI with rebuild protection. Its a means of satisfying both sides of the argument.

Jets

Nolio this sounds fun. It would encourage the hitting up vs cli on down hits.

Lord Thane i would vote yes on that CLI would not activate <##% ks. We have several mechanics at work to battle BFing, but also to encourage wars of similar range, I like the idea of 85% and up provides the CLI. I am looking at this from a simple jack minded casual player.

It really allows for the choices to be, leave yourself open for a pre-re by hitting smaller targets or prevent the pre by having a bloodier battle around your size not allowing others to interfere with the fight with that CLI coverage.

Might I suggest, CLI is canceled when you attack? Just like normal protection. And even if you attack within the correct range again, CLI can only be given once per...xx-hrs? 24 makes sense but I'm not here to big brain anything. It would prevent more than a single castle "pass" per 24 hours at least....not that it is the current problem we are trying to solve. I'm just here to do my best to think out loud.

Remember, this shit is for science!

Lord Thane

Sayer the idea is pretty close to what I said about <70% KS gives no CLI, just with tokens and additional rules about who can do the pretal. I think the added complexity and extra work required by the limited tokens would be too much for an average player to understand or take advantage of. It will be a lot simpler to just cut off CLI hitting below a KS %, then the bottom feeder can be pretaled by anyone.

Sayer

Progress usually takes place between the fringe

Sayer

Lord Thane With how devastating attacks are on defenders, 70% becomes 50% pretty quick. If giving CLI I think it should be closer to 85-95%

Nolio

I think the easiest solution if CLI remains in the game is that a Kingdom only gets CLI if they attack a larger kingdom. anything below them leaves them open to pre/retal

Lord Thane

Jets yeah I think that really might be the last piece needed to fully button up the issue of bottom feeding.

IDK about limiting CLI, then people might attack less to stay within CLI protections. Giving people confidence to make attacks is one of the big benefits, makes war less stress for everyone.