New Rules Coming = BF and Castle Loss Scaling

Lord Thane

We've reached general consensus on implementing 2 new rules to the mechanics. Will go into effect asap (maybe today if I can get off the couch).

Hitting below 70% your KS will not grant CLI protection. It's a discouragement, not meant to prevent BF, but to make an attacker reconsider the potential consequences to hitting in dishonorable zone. While simultaneously giving the weaker defender an opportunity to get help from an ally to pre-re.
Castle losses will become chancified on a scale from 2-10 castles. If you have 2 castles and lose a battle, the attacker gets 20% chance of winning a castle. When you have 3 castles, the attacker gets 30% chance. This scales up to 10 castles which reaches the 100% threshold. This is meant to encourage building castles out of initial protection, encourage growth for all players in general, and improve the difficult experience growing to 2+ castles with less chance of your kingdom getting halved.

Alrighty, the floor is now open for everyone to tear my ass up about this lol 🥹

skigglez

Lord Thane
Is it possible to send an announcement message to everyone when it’s implemented?

Nolio

Lord Thane I think these are a great place to start.

I personally believe that 70% is still too low for CLI, but I think it's a great place to start.

And I like the castle winning change, though an unintended consequence may be players farming until in the higher range of castles. It's just speculation, but I'm excited to see how that change will affect things!

AdinTheDark

Lord Thane Castle losses will become chancified on a scale from 2-10 castles. If you have 2 castles and lose a battle, the attacker gets 20% chance of winning a castle. When you have 3 castles, the attacker gets 30% chance. This scales up to 10 castles which reaches the 100% threshold. This is meant to encourage building castles out of initial protection, encourage growth for all players in general, and improve the difficult experience growing to 2+ castles with less chance of your kingdom getting halved.

So you can still win the land you just won’t gain the castle? It isn’t the easiest thing to juggle buildings/techs/weapons/army in protection and not many people come out of protection with a castle. Coming out with 1 castle is normal some players like to explore to 45 before even attempting getting to 3 castles. But if they do try and make that push it is now harder to get that 3rd castle with attacking. Making it more dangerous to build that second castle even with only a 20% chance of losing it. Because you only have a 20% chance of taking your third and now your landfat and won’t benefit from CLI because you didn’t win a castle.

Xliest

Nolio

Lord Thane he-yo, now this is a step in right direction! Both limiting BF, and giving new kingdoms and new players a chance to cook before being fully exposed to the heinous war crimes that occur in this game! Also the CLI 70% is reasonable, the number can be adjusted later if needed!

The only thing I might suggest is that we leave the code open to changing the castle gain effect, it might be a bit over tuned I dont want to wait till some one has 10 castles to be sure I will win one. Also if you hit and only win land you will not get any amount of CLI. Which may incentivize farming and the game won’t really start till everyone has 10 castles. Let me be clear I don’t want to start the protection with 10 castles I like that we have to start at 1 and build our way up… I might recommend increasing to 20% per castle so that you can get one @90% chance once you get to 5 castles anything past 6 is free game. We can try it out the way it’s designed currently for sure and just leave an open mind to tweaking it in the future!

Lord Thane

skigglez good idea, yes I'll push an in-game announcement.

LadyKaeleer

Lord Thane honestly, an in-game announcement for any and all major game play/rule changes mid-round would be appreciated. Many members of my province won't step foot in the forums (for many reasons) and those of us who are semi-active here aren't always online, and able to share the news.

Lord Thane

LadyKaeleer another good resource to stay on top of changes is the changelog, I try to update it every few days when I have time, and try to only include things that affect the game:
https://thardferr.com/changelog/

Lord Thane

Nolio I used to worry about that, but feature after feature that I thought would encourage farming and the players surprise by continuing to battle, even if it doesn't make sense lol

Thecatman

Awesome change, love it

Sweglord

@Lord Thane Great idea! 👍️

trupheus

I ….. hate nothing about either of these?

Other than the obvious distaste for CLI but I can adapt to that.

Plz papa can we has retals give retals again? Imagine if the blood feud between me and jets test round 1 was isolated between me and him. It would have been like Bloodsport’s Kumite. Or me and assassinator last round but he hit me 3 times for every time I hit him.

This round though I just want to sell the pot to the people but you castle hungry killers won’t let me grow to supply cheap organic pot to everyone.

Lord Thane

Wow, I can't remember the last time Xliest and trupheus approved of a new rule. This must be a really good idea 😆

Jets

trupheus it would have never ended

Nolio

AdinTheDark I think this is mostly the point of it. It's harder to win that castle so it's not as worrying to build up to 4 or 5 castles. Are people going to risk hitting for land when they can't get CLI protection? Not likely.

Lord Thane

AdinTheDark yes you would still get the land spoils. We talked about the implication of winning an attack and losing the chance roll which would result in not getting CLI. The thought process is that among the growth from 2-10 castles, and CLI techs getting researched, and the chancification - there be some balance in there somewhere. So perhaps by the time everyone is at 10+ castles, they will also have researched high tiers of CLI, at which point CLI would be free of the chancification (assuming those people are hitting other KDs at +10 castles).

AdinTheDark

Nolio I think this is mostly the point of it. It's harder to win that castle so it's not as worrying to build up to 4 or 5 castles. Are people going to risk hitting for land when they can't get CLI protection? Not likely.

So even less attacking?

skigglez

Xliest
Makes it interesting though because if everyone is farming to 10 castles it might be worth going super aggressive to try and snipe castles from people with little military. At the very least it adds another dimension to the game during the early round and gives people a better chance at establishing an economy before starting combat

skigglez

AdinTheDark
To be fair the biggest contributor to low attacking is the number of allied provinces……

Nolio

AdinTheDark Unfortunately yes, which I pointed out as well. At least until people are around or passed 10 castles. Unless there's a way to get more castles, like them auto-building. Which I think is a good idea and would make for more attacking. Being forced to get a new castle when you're not ready, I think that's good.

AdinTheDark

Lord Thane

Is the plan to speed up castles? It would be much safer to continue to explore and build up the castles then attempt an attack for a very high chance of only winning land. I’ve seen a lot of arguments on the pace of the game and this rule seems to push towards an even slower start.

Sweglord

AdinTheDark I also think the castle build time should be reduced (maybe 50%) and increase build cost 50%?

Lord Thane

AdinTheDark it's a difficult balancing act, right now the balance is not good. If after the rule goes into effect we see that the pendulum swings too far in the other direction, we can adjust it - maybe just run it from 2-5 castles, or tweak the percentages. I'm hopeful this works 🙂

FriendsInSpace

AdinTheDark

The pace of the game is fucked right now, in my experience, because those not in a big alliance can't get past 2-3 castles without hiding in protection, and any time we go to make a push for higher we either have to hide in protection (CLI or otherwise) or just be content with waiting 3+ weeks to get the good techs.

I believe the castle chancification will strongly discourage castle passing at lower levels, as there isn't a guarantee you will be able to, and allow everyone a chance to build up a good economy/military to rejoin the slugfest earlier.

24 hours of protection after losing a castle is a lot easier to rebuild on when its just 10-20% of your kingdom lost at 8-10+ castles vs 50% at 2 castles.

I really like both of these changes, and while i believe the %ages may need some tweaking, i think this will make the game better in the long run.