Did I get him or he got me?

FriendsInSpace

Lord Thane God bless is self-cast only though, isn't it? Would need to change that haha.

FriendsInSpace

Konkistador There are some balancing things we could do to undead for sure, but I think the best thing you can do for undead is.... make Elf and Gnome better so more people play them. That way undead have more targets.

Konkistador

FriendsInSpace , undead aren't that strong against gnomes or Elfs. Neither I think they weaker. Experienced some pretty good Gnomes defences against undead and elfs bouncing back easily with a big KS gap too.

Elfs army should be weaker as their casting abilities is very string plus they have firewall. And their mages are pretty strong if used wisely on a CLI world .

Gnomes folders got a massive boost with the blades and armour increase when texted up,this with their training speed could be pretty strong. (Swarm of Death with SL only attack, can no longer break through it as the increase for SL was dwarfed for SD Strategy)

Think the problem is Orc/human/ dwarf are too appealing , thus players will naturally choose the more advantageous race to play with.

King Haybol

Sharing some of my recent battle reports. The Undead faction seems really weak. So many of my expensive troops are getting wiped out by the enemy's basic, low-cost units.

On August 4, 2025 at 08:01:35:
My Lord, my Lord, we were invaded by The Valley at Lithar-19!
We lost 1 Castle(s) sorrounded by 27 lands.
We managed to kill : 1452 Mage 834 Swordman 717 Lanceman 0 Caragous 759 Archer 735 Elite Archer
But we lost : 1400 Dark Knight 2400 Skeletal Legion 1318 Wraith Pikeman 1236 Abomination Caragous 1544 Phantom Archer 1806 Wraith Rider

On August 4, 2025 at 04:40:59:
My Lord, our troops fought bravely making the great difference in battle between you and our enemies in The Valley at Lithar-19,
We won 2 Castle(s) sorrounded by 50 lands.
We managed to kill : 1070 Mage 2285 Swordman 1835 Lanceman 0 Caragous 1122 Archer 1562 Elite Archer
But we lost : 674 Dark Knight 3000 Skeletal Legion 2206 Wraith Pikeman 1492 Abomination Caragous 3034 Phantom Archer 1181 Wraith Rider

On August 2, 2025 at 00:54:02:
My Lord, my Lord, we were invaded by Fertile Grounds at Lithar-19! Enemies are upon us.
We lost 1 Castle(s) sorrounded by 27 lands.
We managed to kill : 292 Knight 486 Infantry 520 Pikeman 147 Heavy Infantry 631 Archer 328 Mounted Archers
But we lost : 927 Dark Knight 0 Skeletal Legion 1280 Wraith Pikeman 1020 Abomination Caragous 1569 Phantom Archer 1247 Wraith Rider

On August 2, 2025 at 00:03:59:
My Lord, our troops fought bravely making the great difference in battle between you and our enemies in Fertile Grounds at Lithar-19,
We won 2 Castle(s) sorrounded by 58 lands.
We managed to kill : 1423 Knight 2415 Infantry 1842 Pikeman 1182 Heavy Infantry 2336 Archer 1811 Mounted Archers
But we lost : 854 Dark Knight 3019 Skeletal Legion 4369 Wraith Pikeman 2697 Abomination Caragous 5986 Phantom Archer 1637 Wraith Rider

On July 29, 2025 at 14:34:12:
My Lord, our troops fought bravely making the great difference in battle between you and our enemies in barber319 at Lithar-16,
We won 2 Castle(s) sorrounded by 43 lands.
We managed to kill : 0 Shadow Warrior 687 Rusher 674 Slother 453 Wolf Master 0 Slinger 178 Axe Thrower
But we lost : 124 Dark Knight 669 Skeletal Legion 643 Wraith Pikeman 317 Abomination Caragous 933 Phantom Archer 206 Wraith Rider

On July 29, 2025 at 14:08:35:
My Lord, my Lord, we were invaded by barber319 at Lithar-16! Enemies are upon us.
We lost 1 Castle(s) sorrounded by 27 lands.
We managed to kill : 1323 Shadow Warrior 1235 Rusher 2680 Slother 880 Wolf Master 3650 Slinger 383 Axe Thrower
But we lost : 2048 Dark Knight 2401 Skeletal Legion 3248 Wraith Pikeman 2188 Abomination Caragous 4121 Phantom Archer 2685 Wraith Rider

🫣🫣🫣🤭🤭🤭🤐🤐🤐

xiAo-Shin Star

King Haybol
I feel you... This is what I was talking about. There is something on Undead that is very wrong. Each Attack and Defense wiped our troops easily and it's costly to rebuild and very slow. Only the Legion that are faster but not worth it.

trupheus

We should have an undead battle Royale for the rest of the round. All undead locked into a fight with each other would make me feel much safer.

Cora

trupheus Indeed!! I totally agree with this!

Cora

Lord Thane Noooo plague!!! 🤣🤣🤣 if it spreads like you said it would, Elves would be too busy trying to fix everyone’s KD to do anything else. And what about when it spreads to the Elf, maybe they get a % resistance against it? No, nvm, just scrap that idea. No plague! 😂

trupheus

It takes damn near a month (although Keeper has said techs will be sped up) to get GB. I think it would be a mistake to let GB be cast on others. Also still think GB should be a wizard only spell.

You know what exists after almost every battle? Corpses. Let Dark Knights raise Skeletal Legion. Shift the racial spell so that they resurrect more.

Overall I don’t think Undead are as bad as some make them out to be. There’s just very specific ways to play them. You can all out counter range damage and run 100% Skeletal Legion to be the bane of any gnome or elf. The downside for all ye undead is that there’s not a lot of gnomes and elves with just 22 (4 gnomes 18elf) in the top 90. But there’s only 11 undead, so 2 targets for each of you. I was hit and broken by an undead with 2/3 my land that wiped out weeks of caragous training. Then he came back as soon as I left prot and broke me. Granted this means there’s many orcs, humans, and dwarves who are going to want all the undead action they can get. Now you can build to counter those orcs, humans, and dwarves at the cost of being weaker against heavy range races.

Konkistador

trupheus , cool idea about the Dark Knight abilities.

As for the Skeletal only army, even with good pool of Elfo players, is not actually as it seems by most.

Mages vs Skeletons only battle. Elf wins.
Gnomes hight folders with short range. Vs Skeletons only. ( as Skeletons got no armour so no defence increase wiht techs)(gnome wins)

Point being is Gnomes and Elfs can both counter or have advantages against undead wiht the certain Army config.

Undead vs human/ Orc there is no or little chance of this.

Think here is where the leveling would be helpful. Every race should have weakness and strengths. And with right strategy all races should explore each others weakness.

Maybe the only chance undead needs is one that would be tailored against orcs and humans.

Skeletons bypassing short range on Swarm was raised and could help with orcs. Or them having a infections or stronger powers against the living (humans) be a good solution.
So they keep the weakness but give them a small chance to beat these races if we'll played.

Could this be the race specific tech. Dark Knight spells being extra effective against the living, with range damage that would only affect humans and orcs.

skigglez

Konkistador Undead shouldn't be strong against everything. Sure an elf can build 100% mages and beat a legion swarm, but that isn't viable for them because they would get annihilated by dwarves. All of these posts are centered around the racial strat and it needing to be more viable, but I don't agree. If a dwarf using shield line and 50% SB gets hit by an orc, they have 0 percent chance of winning. Does that mean that shield line needs to be more balanced against melee heavy armies, or does it mean that shield line is designed to be good against range and not good against melee.

Because of all of the complaining people were doing on the forums, one of the undead in our group decided to do some massive upfeeding tests (the ones Trupheus discussed above) to see how good swarm actually was - here are the results of those 2 attacks. This kingdom was less than half his KS on the first attack, and the second attack was 24 hours later. If you're looking at it from the elf's perspective, that's completely broken (which I agree) - losing 11k caragous to someone less than half your KS in a 24 hour window is ridiculous. What other race can upfeed that high and actually break someone? There were several other attacks of similar KS differentials on another elf in the top 30, similar results - broke them while less than 50% of KS.

On July 27, 2025 at 04:16:46:
My Lord, our troops fought with all versus , but we were unable to invade. We had bloody falls in battle and we were unable to stand firm in battle, we were obligated to retire from the field.
We managed to kill : 0 Mage 0 Swordman 0 Lanceman 6609 Caragous 0 Archer 0 Elite Archer
But we lost : 0 Dark Knight 32563 Skeletal Legion 0 Wraith Pikeman 0 Abomination Caragous 0 Phantom Archer 0 Wraith Rider

On July 28, 2025 at 04:01:05:
My Lord, our troops fought bravely making the great difference in battle between you and our enemies in , our noble men are proud to be part of your kingdom an they fought in the name of you, honor and justice, leading no man behind.
We won 2 Castle(s) sorrounded by 52 lands.
In this lands are also constructed : 35 Advanced Training Center , 0 Farm , 3 Forge , 37 Guard House , 0 Guard Tower , 43 House , 0 Market , 36 Medical Center , 9 Mill , 14 Mine , 185 School , 0 Training Center ,
In this lands also lived 11441 people who are gratefull to join our Kingdom.
We managed to kill : 0 Mage 557 Swordman 487 Lanceman 4469 Caragous 264 Archer 4150 Elite Archer
But we lost : 0 Dark Knight 25459 Skeletal Legion 0 Wraith Pikeman 0 Abomination Caragous 0 Phantom Archer 0 Wraith Rider

Konkistador

skigglez, don't recall saying I want undead to be superior to all races, did highlight being against this, my points was tgat just think that undead should have a small chance to beat an orc or human, currently is not the case.

Only tried to give suggestions as Xiaos point of view from ongoing battles will vastly differs from someone playing the race not in the same position.

Don't think justifying anyone's actions on the forum comments is fair, as this should be an open platform to improve the game.

Also made clear my views are only a perspective like all others will have theirs own, and don't think mine weight any more than anyone else.

However if you look at the top 30 might be telling for race levelling.

Just personally, take xiao and others as decent players and believe unless you farming the recovery from battle might be slightly unlevel.

Specially with their unlimited access to resources 🤣

King Haybol

skigglez Carragous troops aren't superior without a mix of other troops. They only have 1 defense, making them fodder without support.

trupheus

Konkistador

Unfortunately with tech changes all of my BRs from last round are invalid. But I was bouncing one hit before being broken as undead when attacked by assassinator’s alliance. Made me an MC believer. It’s possible and very expensive because that kind of fight is not what Undead is supposed to be good at.

skigglez

Konkistador they insist on running wizards to self cast, they would do much better if they dropped all of that economy drain to build stuff that better supports army recovery. But I’m done giving advice, Undead is really good from my perspective. They can play it however they want and flood the forums with complaints. Last post from me on this thread.

trupheus

The hit from Talic really got to the mages too. Which them hiding hung my caragous out to dry against the legion.

Another classic scenario of dang it why couldn’t the first hit break me. It was my doomsday scenario of caragous getting wiped out by undead followed by a gnome to go straight to the mages.

It’s the game of rock paper scissors. I think the problem is that we’re at extremes on the spectrum. If you’re bad against something, you’re really really bad. If you’re good at something, you’re really really good.

Does 100% mage very nicely counter skeletal legion? Absolutely. Would a gnome with 15000 RTs with range tech on FF make my 10000 mages disappear for a fraction of the cost? Absolutely. Both armies more than disappear but the cost and retrain time is very different.

xiAo-Shin Star

skigglez

Seriously, you can say this because you are in a good situation. Having schools or not doesn't matter. Your advice is not needed as we played well and don't have economy problem. In your position right now, of course you'll drop the school to get massive troops to defend. If you flip the situation where you are fighting nonstop with different races, I don't think you can say something.
And of course Undead Racial Strat is enough to wreck an elf/gnome which is good.
But No Strat for other races aint that good for Undead. As you can see Undead lossing much more each time it made an attack. In my case here, I lost 90% of what I have after an attack.

Konkistador

Was sharing my part on the back of @TheKeeper request:
"Not immediately, but I'm gathering info for improvements of Undead race, feel free to send me your ideas."

Early in this thread, as undead player in previous and current rounds, not pretending to be an expert in this or any race, just under the opinion that if you check the top 30 or even top 60 something doesn't seem right. Unless all our best players got an affinity to play orc/human/ dwarf.

Guess devs will be the gamekeepers of the ultimate verdict where races are balanced or not. And if its the case I will also happily accept and is just down to players to choose the right race that suits their playing style.

skigglez

Konkistador what doesn't seem right about the top 60? Here's the numbers:

Dwarf - 15
Elf - 9
Gnome - 2
Human - 17
Orc - 10
Undead - 7

As is the case with most rounds - human get the bulk of the players. Especially with it being a new race, I don't see there being any problem with Undead's representation. The real issue I see in those numbers is that nobody plays gnome - only 2 players being the top guy and Thane.

Konkistador

skigglez scrutiny is always good, and there was value to be added, would you stop being part of the discussions.

5 out of the 7 undead players are xiao which seems to be having issues with undead.

And maybe you got a valid point, gnome/ elf should be more appealing, wouldn't oppose to that either. Or again, maybe all is balanced and is just down to personal choice to the each player to choose their play style each race provides.

skigglez

Konkistador Myself and others in this thread have told him why he's having issues - he's trying to run wizards and it just doesn't work. Him refusing to listen is not indicative of Undead being bad, that's a player choice. From the player counts, I think Elf is plenty appealing to play - and is more viable than people make it out to be. Top 30 has 5 Elf, 5 Human, 6 Orc. They are doing fairly well considering all of their shortcomings, so hopefully the devs don't go too hard on buffing them because they seem to be making it work.

skigglez

xiAo-Shin Star Haha I'm so confused - so running schools has no detriment to your ability to fight nonstop? That makes zero sense - how could having less gold upkeep and building space tied up in non-combat units and buildings NOT help you with nonstop fighting? Please explain that to me in a coherent way

FriendsInSpace

King Haybol

xiAo-Shin Star

Ok boys I'm sorry but you are being stupid, not listening and quite frankly annoying.

xiAo-Shin Star But No Strat for other races aint that good for Undead.

Here are some BRs from MAGA, these hits occurred within 5 minutes of eachother.

Someone from xxx tried to invade us. It seemed to be armed with a few rocks and some sticks. At last they run like little girls

We managed to kill : 5173 Shieldbearer 5609 Hammer wheilder 7755 Axe Man 881 Runner 8273 Light Crossbowman 1781 Heavy Crossbowman

But we lost : 3152 Dark Knight 15190 Skeletal Legion 12918 Wraith Pikeman 0 Abomination Caragous 14241 Phantom Archer 4939 Wraith Rider

Someone from xxx tried to invade us. It seemed to be armed with a few rocks and some sticks. At last they run like little girls

We managed to kill : 2525 Shieldbearer 2793 Hammer wheilder 3227 Axe Man 2105 Runner 2899 Light Crossbowman 2286Heavy Crossbowman

But we lost : 3818 Dark Knight 3798 Skeletal Legion 3230 Wraith Pikeman 0 Abomination Caragous 3561 Phantom Archer 4577 Wraith Rider

My Lord, we were invaded by xxxx. Enemies are upon us blah blah blah the hit that finally broke him.

We managed to kill : 222 Shieldbearer 619 Hammer wheilder 406 Axe Man 310 Runner 808 Light Crossbowman 221 Heavy Crossbowman

But we lost : 3471 Dark Knight 949 Skeletal Legion 807 Wraith Pikeman 0 Abomination Caragous 890 Phantom Archer 2114 Wraith Rider

This is from a race that undead doesn't counter, yet he managed to bounce 2 hits then the third broke him. Maybe the problem isn't undead, its you. Skigglez and I have tried to explain why what you are doing is wrong and give you tips to improve, yet you insist that the race is broken, needs to be better, and skigglez doesn't know what he is talking about because he "

King Haybol I wonder if you're Maga. Your experience in battles isn't ripe yet.

There are probably more kills and losses in those three hits than you guys have had combined in a week. Stop insisting your build is good, then whining about losing a lot of shit. Clearly, if your builds were good, then you wouldn't be complaining. The race isn't bad, you are.

xiAo-Shin Star Having schools or not doesn't matter.

It absolutely does. Full stop. We have explained why several times, yet you insist on keeping trying to cast with a race that's just bad at it, and losing. Get. Rid. Of. The Wizards. You can run a better and bigger military.

King Haybol Carragous troops aren't superior without a mix of other troops

Caragous are absolute garbage in both elf and undead. We have explained this also as well, several times. It is about the only thing that you guys say that is even remotely true. But then my question is, we know that unit sucks, so why in the fuck are you still running it?

Pull your heads out of your asses, actually listen to some advice, and maybe you will have a better time with the race. Or just keep doing the exact same thing and keep failing. Either way, all these forum posts about how undead suck blah blah are getting annoying.

/rant

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