New Crime and Land Spoils Talk

Lord Thane

Currently going off info gained from chats and old forum threads like this one:
https://forum.thardferr.com/d/590-land-gained-on-attacks/13

I've implemented the first part of the new land spoils mechanic, which is tying crime to land/castles. In the new system land creates crime, bigger empires = more crime. Castles reduce crime by improving coverage, more castles relative to land = better policing = lower crime.

The formula is pretty simple: Crime = (land-based crime) x (castle coverage multiplier). The base crime rate is set on rungs of land, basically every 10 lands equals 1 crime, so 100 land = 10 crime. We then multiply that by your castle multiplier, which is set with a min/max of 0.5 (1:10 castle/land ratio) to 2.25 (max cap at 1:45 ratio), a ratio of 1:20 is the baseline at 1.0. Some basic examples of crime on some kingdoms:

10 castles, 100 land = crime 5
2 castles, 100 land = crime 23
5 castles, 100 land = crime 10

In addition to this change I've also updated Improved Law System tech, changing from the old max-cap 25% to now it reduces your crime by 50%. God Bless also no longer affects crime, though its buff to resource production was increased from 10 to 15%.

Game guide entries updated:
https://thardferr.com/guide/armory-buildings-pop/
https://thardferr.com/guide/magic/
https://thardferr.com/guide/technology/

Lord Thane

The ratios can and probably should be fine tuned. If I remember correctly I made my initial post with all my numbers while taking the Browns to the superbowl one fine morning. The numbers seem good as a starting point at least, we'll see how it goes in the mini round 😃

Blahblahblah

Did you do anything to lessen the loss of troops in battle Or are we just trying to force more of that by making people build more castles than what they 're ready to try and defend? I mean forcing people to build more castles Does nothing, if the recovery rate and loss of troops isn't lessened.

Lord Thane

Blahblahblah yes, I mentioned it a little in chat and in the changelog:
*New Feature: New Recovery tech tree = heal 10% of troops, then choose a path to generate extra troop production after a successful defend or attack.

I haven't looked at Keeper's code in detail yet so that it can be added to the game guide, but my initial assessment I think it looks good. Pairing that with the new Quick Retreat and you could get defensive losses down to a max of 54% garrison casualties, if you couple it with 1:1 Medical Centers then you can further reduce casualties to a maximum of 44%.

Blahblahblah

Lord Thane okay we'll test it out. When is it going to be added?Or is there no timeframe on it yet?

Lord Thane

Blahblahblah I'm not quite sure, need to talk to Keeper about it. He synced his local dev environment to github already but never copied the changes over to the live game. I'm not sure if it's because he ran into a bug or something, or maybe forgot. I'll ask him tonight and see what's what.

Lord Thane

Looks like Keeper got them uploaded now 👍

TheKeeper

I was making lighter version of images in tech tree

Lord Eagle

Remove the market cap also plz

Konkistador

Land Spoils concept is bang on.
However percentage are off.

Sugguestion
Attacker
1
20% - 30% land gain
Retal
15% - 23% land gain

Lord Thane

Konkistador that's an interesting take. I think we could for sure increase the %, but not to go overboard like that lol

Maybe a good increment to try would be 12-17% attack, 10-15% retal.

Idk, even that might be too harsh... We really need to see how it feels as the round progresses.

Konkistador

That would be a good move.
Don't think is that reserved, but sure can take it step by step.

4 castles 100 land (25%) 25 land gain
Vs
4 castles 100 land (12%) 12 land gain
Vs
4 castles 100 land (15%) 15 land gain

Still think 25% gains are the closest to resemble pre changes land gains or to make an attack worth it.

Blahblahblah

How about we address the actual route problem? Thank you so much production speed. Weapon production speed, training speed, or make it.So shit doesn't die. It doesn't matter how little of land you take from somebody if their shit is dead and can't retrain in time.

Blahblahblah

Also your new crime rate management sucks.
Building a castle until you have all the c l I text done....... Big big mistake.

X_Soldier

I don't think we can apply 20-30% margins on land gain on attacks, it would make all late round races much stronger, imagine sitting on a 1000 land kingdom near the end and being hit for 300 land, any pre and retail would slice your kingdom in half, and it would also make passing castles much easier, since even using the smallest cap (20%) you could pass nearly 70% of your kingdom land in 5 hits.

Initially land spoils seemed really off to me but it's not that it was bad, but it completely changes the dynamic of the game, we are now hitting for castles with the new changes, not to outgrow farmers, making the right attacks will have much more importance then hitting every day, I think this can create a cool new dynamic on the game but I have some concerns.
Gnomes should be exempted from crime rate grow, this would help leveling the playing field.
The incentive to attack on the first one or two weeks are very few since we can outfarm everyone who does.
Orcs and elves, the already OP races, will be even stronger, orcs because lowering everyones resources capability would boost their advantage even more and elves because by making QR no longer cut long-range attack in half, there would be very low incentive to hit them instead of just hitting another race. But lets see how it goes!

Adamastor

Untill 100 land - 25 % for attacked, 20% for retal
100-200 land - 20% for attacke, 15% for retal
Over 200 land, land/castle like always has been

Psidon

these changes need to be tweaked.

Lord Thane

I'm starting to think we should reduce castle build time to 24 ticks. We already have a huge number of castles going around, which is really good, making them even more easily accessible would probably help even more.

Cora

Lord Thane I think 20 hours is better. Only cutting 6 hours doesn’t make much of a difference, but cutting 10 hours can help keep castles building with the amount of hits.
I think the cost needs lowered in the early stages of the round. Maybe have a lower cost that increases incrementally with your growth to finally cap at the current cost. I think that will really help encourage castle building.

Psidon

Lord Thane if the aim is to make more castles the strategy next round then castles need to be easier to build as well..

i would make them 20 hours and 500/500....

Konkistador

@Lord Thane @TheKeeper are you changing the land spoil %, using the mini round to see if it makes sense to play next round, as it stands is an only farming prone game. I really like the change overall but when you make 5/6 hits and defend all retals to get a surplus of 25 ish land total gain makes no sense.