Orcs military balance.

Jets

I love orc but we know that they ultimately suck late game. I have been thinking about a way to balance Orcs, especially against their nemesis, gnomes. Rather than adjust attack/defense etc... what if we double the production rate of the orcs TC units to offset how shitty they are. Gnomes get 10:1 right? With fantastic ATC units. If orcs continue to have meh at best ATC unite, let them take advantage of their econ boosts by pumping out armory and shitty TC units since most will die in battle.

AdinTheDark

Doubling sounds a little much. Maybe just on slingers. Mayyybe sloths as well. Rushers get LA and SB. They should be fine. Maybe weighted differently in combat

Lord Thane

AdinTheDark especially for something that would give them such a lead for the first 3 quarters of a round - a lead that a fully teched out human (or anyone else) might not be able to catch up to.

Maybe a late game imbalance should get a late game improvement, like with a new tech that helps level things out.

Jets

AdinTheDark just remember, every human military unit has armor.

Darteye

No...fix WMs for a mounted army option.

Fix SW and orc late game solved like in old thard they were only thing that could keep up with human

AdinTheDark

Jets thus costs much more and trains way slower. You guys are already talking about upping the barracks count. Rusher at 4/3 and is way cheaper to replace and will out number humans by far. Seems a little too strong.

Jets

AdinTheDark I don't think I won a single battle against gnomes until I had free troops

Darteye

Jets as which race? Orca always hated gnome cause they have alot of mounted AND SW dont work well on gnome armies.

As human u kill gnome late game easily

Gnome is the strongest early game race only really countered by dwarf which gets killed by orc...so yea...lol

Jets

Darteye I'm just focusing on orc right now. Humans are pretty solid through out the entire life of the round. Elves tend to stay roughly the same. Dwarves either get tumbled or will be top tier. Gnomes have the ability to flux, late game I don't recall how fantastic they are. Having played orc for the first weeks. Even with as much resources as I could wish for, they just in general, sucked. Just looking for a way to improve orcs as I see them as the most unbalanced

Blahblah

Darteye and we all know how things turned out for the dwarf every round.

Mack10

Jets Orcs get protected by Gnomes though. They need their resources.
Last round you cant really use as an example because no1 needed the Orcish resources so people just fed off them.
With this said I do believe WM need a buff though.

Muh Dude

Maybe 1.5x? Or give Slother armor and +1 defense?

Jets

Muh Dude I like both of these ideas

Xliest

You could Simple’s give them +1 defence, I would be interested if the short range damage slothers do tends to 1 or tends to more than 1 depending on how many WM are on the battlefield. Maybe you make that number greater when attacking than when defending? Thoughts.

Lord Thane

Xliest if it's a +1 for free then I think it's fair to remove a point elsewhere, like the slinger should be -1. Not really sure how a orc slinger at 60gpc gets 2 defense when a gnome slinger costs 100gpc and only gets 1 defense.

Muh Dude

Sorry, English was my first language.. I meant make them need armor.. like 1 wolf, 1 spear, 1 armor. Then give them +1 defense or just leave it and let it scale with LA upgrades? That could help them late game too.

Not opposed to dropping the defense on slingers to compensate though

Lord Thane

Muh Dude I'd agree with either method, add the armor for +1 or borrow it from slingers. Poll will decide 😃

Jets

Lord Thane I would like SW to be enforced leather armor and not just leather armor

Xliest

Lord Thane keep in mind they train 20x slower than RT’s so if you get zeroed, which is going to happen cause your stuff is so weak, it’s tough getting back.

trupheus

Thing I don’t understand with orc, why do they have a cheap army, 7 generals, yet produce weapons below average speed and their TC units are marginally better than gnome but train at a much slower rate?

AdinTheDark

Are they getting the population housing bonus the guide says?

Lord Thane

I alter my +1 for giving slother an armor slot for +1 defense to also add increased gold cost of 50-100 extra. There needs to be more complex balance.

As for TC training, I think altering that would cause too much imbalance. For the same cost an orc can field 2X as many slingers as a gnome, which have 2X the defense, giving them a 4X defensive advantage. The only advantage the gnome slinger has is in building speed, so they can recover faster, a small counter.