Orcs military balance.

Jets

AdinTheDark just remember, every human military unit has armor.

AdinTheDark

Jets thus costs much more and trains way slower. You guys are already talking about upping the barracks count. Rusher at 4/3 and is way cheaper to replace and will out number humans by far. Seems a little too strong.

Jets

AdinTheDark I don't think I won a single battle against gnomes until I had free troops

Darteye

Jets as which race? Orca always hated gnome cause they have alot of mounted AND SW dont work well on gnome armies.

As human u kill gnome late game easily

Gnome is the strongest early game race only really countered by dwarf which gets killed by orc...so yea...lol

Jets

Darteye I'm just focusing on orc right now. Humans are pretty solid through out the entire life of the round. Elves tend to stay roughly the same. Dwarves either get tumbled or will be top tier. Gnomes have the ability to flux, late game I don't recall how fantastic they are. Having played orc for the first weeks. Even with as much resources as I could wish for, they just in general, sucked. Just looking for a way to improve orcs as I see them as the most unbalanced

Blahblah

Darteye and we all know how things turned out for the dwarf every round.

Mack10

Jets Orcs get protected by Gnomes though. They need their resources.
Last round you cant really use as an example because no1 needed the Orcish resources so people just fed off them.
With this said I do believe WM need a buff though.

Muh Dude

Maybe 1.5x? Or give Slother armor and +1 defense?

Jets

Muh Dude I like both of these ideas

Xliest

You could Simple’s give them +1 defence, I would be interested if the short range damage slothers do tends to 1 or tends to more than 1 depending on how many WM are on the battlefield. Maybe you make that number greater when attacking than when defending? Thoughts.

Lord Thane

Xliest if it's a +1 for free then I think it's fair to remove a point elsewhere, like the slinger should be -1. Not really sure how a orc slinger at 60gpc gets 2 defense when a gnome slinger costs 100gpc and only gets 1 defense.

Muh Dude

Sorry, English was my first language.. I meant make them need armor.. like 1 wolf, 1 spear, 1 armor. Then give them +1 defense or just leave it and let it scale with LA upgrades? That could help them late game too.

Not opposed to dropping the defense on slingers to compensate though

Lord Thane

Muh Dude I'd agree with either method, add the armor for +1 or borrow it from slingers. Poll will decide 😃

Jets

Lord Thane I would like SW to be enforced leather armor and not just leather armor

Xliest

Lord Thane keep in mind they train 20x slower than RT’s so if you get zeroed, which is going to happen cause your stuff is so weak, it’s tough getting back.

trupheus

Thing I don’t understand with orc, why do they have a cheap army, 7 generals, yet produce weapons below average speed and their TC units are marginally better than gnome but train at a much slower rate?

AdinTheDark

Are they getting the population housing bonus the guide says?

Lord Thane

I alter my +1 for giving slother an armor slot for +1 defense to also add increased gold cost of 50-100 extra. There needs to be more complex balance.

As for TC training, I think altering that would cause too much imbalance. For the same cost an orc can field 2X as many slingers as a gnome, which have 2X the defense, giving them a 4X defensive advantage. The only advantage the gnome slinger has is in building speed, so they can recover faster, a small counter.

Lord Thane

Xliest not 20x, it's 10x, which is pretty fair considering how much more expensive and weaker they are. The gnome slinger is a true fodder, while the orcish slinger is actually pretty OP - just slow to train. If we make the orc slinger training at 5x then what's a fair tradeoff? Maybe take away 1 defense and increase the cost 2x. Not sure what would be fair and keep that unit still an attractive option. Increase x3 and just remove 1 point of defense?

AdinTheDark

Lord Thane
@TheKeeper

Orcs:

Get food production bonus.
Get iron production bonus.
Get wood production bonus.
Train very cheap army and mounts.
Can get more population in a smaller area than other races.
Have reduced spell casting abilities.
Slow weapon building speed.
Construct buildings faster the average.
Have 7 generals

I don’t remember the exact amount extra they get and can’t seem to find it anywhere else in the game guide but they do get a housing bonus but it doesn’t seem to be coded in. Starting with 15 houses X100 is 1500 plus 45 other buildings X10 is 450. For 1950 but it says 1910 is my max population on details screen.

Xliest

Lord Thane sorry thane I was talking about relative training for rt’s its 10x per tc but slingers are 1:2.

Jules

I'm just not sure on any of this (yet) tbh.

Orcs seemed fine-ish when ranged damage was normal. This also disproportionately fucked SW's. I am under the impression orc needs a slight buff late game that doesn't involve SW's.

I just find it difficult to balance it without the proper damage baseline for some time. Orcs have historically been fucked by range even at 50%. Smol changes first on this one

Jets

Jules I agree. Once the resource dump happened it was evident orc military was meh at best. However. Prior to the unlimited resources, it was doing quite well. I mostly am looking for a way to be more effective late game as I dont want orcs to just been seen as resource farmers.

Also, I'm playing all the races, I just happened to have chosen orc first and the military just seemed lacking. As muh lord thane stated, it has got to be a give and take, make them more expensive or require armor. I still believe that SW should use enforced leather armor and then add leather armor to sloth or sling, I don't really care which, and then up the cost. Just happy to share my simple jack thoughts.