Make attacking first worth it again.

Jaxx

Its not like there are a lot of others options atm.

trupheus

Lord Thane

I like this one.

Retals give retals.

Lord Thane

trupheus that's pretty good, game of hot potato, who runs out of generals first lol

Jets

Lord Thane it used to be from what I recall

saadht

We gotta find out who suggested to remove retals giving retals in the first place. It was in Keeper's first code, then some people bitched about them I think.

Leo

Lord Thane

Economic issues:

Population food consumption needs balance. (Undead have a huge advantage especially compared to double food consumption of away army for other races)
On battles buildings are being destroyed and removed from the game at a very high percentage. Destruction percentage better to halved.
Spells are only for elves to cast
Use market count instead of Market/Land ratio in the gold production
Max pop production maybe a bit more than 1.5x optimal

TheKeeper

Leo Not as huge as you think, Gold can be an issue for undeads and really weak units

Leo

TheKeeper

But, gold is not a big issue at the moment. With normal tech times there will be enough for everyone. Food price probably would be 2:1 or 3:1 unless there are people playing races other than Undead.

Undead food upkeeps are added to gold upkeep as 1:1
Undead need around 0.75 farm compared to other races 1.25 - 1.50 per land where they can use the free space as they wish
Gold need is still less than a Dwarf.
Villager consumption is also not an issue. Every race remove villager to train troops.
No weakness. It looks like a much better human race where humans to be considered OP.
Better pikemen than human. Slightly expensive but same knight. Cloaking mounted archer. Same archer. Caragous with base stats. Melee version of RT.

While there is a race like this no point in playing any other race in a competitive round.

Leo

TheKeeper

A human 1.2 farms and 0.8 gh

Even with max pop and irrigation can't feed away army with the stocked food. DK can easily run 1.5 gh and be ok.

Lord Thane

I would reduce markets and make more farms. If some races struggle with a resource, they can always ask an elf for a spell, or use diplomacy to trade. Or use the upcoming Thardferrian Market 😃

Leo

Lord Thane

Why struggle while there is a race that doesn't consume food and have better version of units with a slight cost.

I am stating economic issues of why attacking is not worth

Lord Thane

Leo trade one struggle for another would be my guess. I know TheKeeper is still developing the Undead, so not really any point in speculating about whether it's op or not. Personally I don't have any interest just because I've never been a fan of playing the undead, except for in Diablo being a necromancer was fun. I am actually considering Orc for next round, even tho I wanna go Dwarf, but I wanna play a round with a friend and he usually goes Orc so idk.

trupheus

Leo

I don’t think you have any clue what you’re talking about right now.

We managed to kill : 6 Knight 284 Infantry 200 Pikeman 17 Heavy Infantry 310 Archer 23 Mounted Archers

But we lost : 103 Dark Knight 500 Skeletal Legion 136 Wraith Pikeman 78 Abomination Caragous 205 Phantom Archer 44 Wraith Rider

The wood and iron cost between those killed troops is roughly the same. The gold cost of the human is HALF of the undead. Thats not even factoring in upkeep, where the undead is also much more because of lack of food upkeep. Do undead get twice the gold of human? No. Could I possibly supplement by selling food? Yes, but it’s never going to make up the difference.

Jets

Leo this is why people should make friends with orcs, not eat them

Leo

Lord Thane

Mine are feedbacks from the perspective of someone not playing undead.
Compared to the initial design gold upkeeps of Undead units were lowered if i am not mistaken. That direction of improvement is making them stronger.
Food consumption thing is game breaking where food is a much more important than before.

AdinTheDark

Gold is an issue for undead. As well as iron. I’ve spent every dime and iron I have gained every tick since we started hitting. Not having a food requirement for units is nice but I have to run 1:1 markets to be able to keep up with 1:1 ghs while at war. I can tell you they are insanely expensive and I haven’t even got to use much of the atcs yet which are all mounted. One requires two horses.

Leo

AdinTheDark

I already charted out Undead with Saad's cooperation to compare its balance with other races. Not writing these out of blue.
Iron consumption is less than human. Wood consumption is no problem.

If you didn't use your gold for shortened tech you would have around 1million+ extra gold now. That would be enough
to cover for you.

Ah about market.. Everyone has to run 1:1 market imho. Because of using market / land ratio in the calculation not doing so the drop is drastical.

Jets

trupheus oh, I thought they start bottom feeding off you for land because you are 40% smaller than them.

Leo

trupheus

This is my post from whatsapp chat right after that exact BR posted. I know what i am talking about

AdinTheDark

Leo Compared to the initial design gold upkeeps of Undead units were lowered if i am not mistaken

Leo

Only one unit from 36 to 28 a tick…

Leo

Jets

As an orc, best producer in game; right after initial protection ended and when you were dropped to 12 land or so with army out. What was it like foodwise?

AdinTheDark

The worst thing about attacking is all the empty land you get. Took two castles and 51 land in two attacks 34 of that land was empty. Trying to keep armory up and catch up buildings to grow fast enough to stay out of range of smaller kingdoms is extremely difficult. War is expensive, farming is slow. Both have drawbacks.

Leo

AdinTheDark

It is 23 btw 18/5 knight to 23/0 dark knight.

AdinTheDark

Leo
I lied it was lowered more. Just got the full stats of the units lol

AdinTheDark

Leo
I haven’t started a tech since we came out of protection. It’s all gone to army.