Gnomish issues

Mack10

Looking into the game guide I cant see anything about Gnomes getting the 115 per house bonus?
This is crucial to the gnomish build for gold and military.

Also the weapon building speed is not where it should be, this needs to be sped up considerably.

Nolio

Mack10 Gnomes don't get a housing bonus. It shows what my max pop is and that is in line with 100 per house, or 115 after habitation.

Weapons definitely need to be faster, or fodder needs to have stats double and build rate reduced in half. Either way, something to help balance them

TheKeeper

Mack10 It have a production bonus, also GH, but not on housing,

Xliest

Mack10 I think it was 110 but I could be wrong it could have been 100 and just the GH extra 25 space that made it in…

Nolio

TheKeeper When you say production bonus, which one are you referring to? I notice that they do produce armory around 2.4 per forge, whereas the standard I believe is 2 per forge. Is that what you mean, or is there something else?

TheKeeper

Nolio yes

Lord Thane

I agree playing gnome is difficult, I would say for advanced users or people looking for a challenge. It was easier/funner to play a Dwarf. Actually, I think in scales of easy/fun it goes: Human, Orc, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome. Well, I had more fun as Elf than Dwarf, but Dwarf was much easier.

I didn't run into any issues with armory as a gnome. I just kept it running all the time - even night. Also, I found if you make the big investment in mills (running 2 to 2.5 per land) it's easier to keep up with constant cat production, and since they don't take up much room once built - you can save on GH to use on more mills or houses.

The extra space on GH is a definite help too, it's practically like a pop bonus. Also the fact that cat/bal only take 1 slot in GH is nice, since they take 4/5 men to produce and pack a huge power - I keep ATC training non-stop.

For gnomes, I think it's important they live in Alderd to get racial bonuses, they really need it. Also, having Blessing on 24/7 via magic potion is also necessary.

Lost my army a few times now. It's really slow going to rebuild ATC. I haven't figured out a good strategy for that yet - mostly because I've only been bottom fed by suiciders in the top-10. I think the new rules for anti BF may help, someone my own size would probably not fair too well against my ATC heavy gnome, and I've been adding tech to increase ATC units attack.

How I foresee an ideal war strat: I would send first wave as ATC heavy. Then, supplement losses with TC units that build fast. Repeat with TC until the war is over... During a "rebuild week" I would dump the TC and max out ATC production. IMO the TC units are useless to keep on hand for anything, only really useful during an active war with someone to quickly replenish troop supply. Keeping stockpile healthy is important for that.

I also didn't make a single Rider. It's expensive and adds extra complexity to my strategy without much benefit. I run out of resource before I can make more cat/bal/infantry each tick, not worth trying to sacrifice other more useful units for some poney guys. The Rider seems to have been originally built just as a placeholder because "all races get an animal unit", doesn't really seem to fit in for gnomes. I'd rather have it be another ranged or dual range/melee unit like the humans mounted archer.

King Haybol

Lord Thane I managed the Gnome race very well during the test round. I believe they are balanced; they may appear weak at the early stage but become very strong at the late stage. This is only my observation. I don't know with others. 😇😇😇

I only choose to play ORC now because I go with racial province as agreed in our GC discussion. 🤭🤭🤭

Mack10

Lord Thane
I played gnome quite a but before, the Additional housing is super important and makes sense, does it not? Allows the troops to be built and suicided more often and allows gold production bonus to buy wood. Also you can Jam a bunch of those lil MF's in a hole in the ground.

Since CLI has been introduced their strategy has been tampered with too much.
You are supposed to be hitting a lot and able to stop the retals but now that is nullified with CLI.
The weapons are not quick enough as well with 2.4. Maybe increase that more in an Aldard province?
You can say they are for advanced users but they have been nerfed and not a viable contender, take this round for example, there are barely any. and none climbing to the top. They should be powerhouses right now, especially with little Dwarves in the mix.
With all the humans there are plentiful targets to slap on Far Fighting and climb up very quickly.

The Catapults are to soak damage, but you really should never spec into ATC units for gnome because Riders suck (as you said), and its already too difficult for keeping up on wood for Militia/Inf.
The food costs alone should be a deterrent....
Keep in mind without the 115/house bonus you need to jack up housing as well.

End game the idea is to eventually switch to Infantry (When Light Armours are teched) and RT's with Cats/bals on build for as many castles as you have, again, to soak up a bit of damage from the RT's.
Their Racial Tech bonus is absolute trash, and I can say I tested that a few rounds ago when most of my army was ATC driven and explosive power researched.
There was no way I could build that type of army without the resources supplied and no way to sustain it.

With all of this said, I really feel Gnomes should have 115 housing bonus... Allows them to thrive.

King Haybol You have no say, you are fed from your fellow pinos, in the form of resources/retals/pretals/intimidation.
Play a round without your crew and then you can give feedback.

Nolio

Lord Thane The Rider seems to have been originally built just as a placeholder

Does this mean that you're going to revamp them into something useful?

I think @Mack10 is right about needing the housing bonus. Just to afford a constant supply of cats and bals they need to have 2 or 2.5 mills, and to be able to run that you need almost 5:1 houses. To get the gold bonus you need to run 1:1 markets. that leaves very little room for much else.

I have found that you don't need the armory bonus nearly as much as the ability to get wood, either through buying it with gold, or with a wood production bonus.

DougE and Mack are right about the armory being impossible to build up fodder if you're in a war or constant state of fighting, which is essentially the point of the game. So for that, I believe that the fodder units could simply use a balanced tweak by cutting their production in half, or even more. Make 5 or 3 per TC, but make them units that are worth having. Double their stats, halve their production rate. This would also solve the armory problem if done right.

Now considering there are 8 gnomes in the game, and 3 of them are inactive, it does seem they need a buff. I'm getting killed by humans that bf me which feels like the mechanic for hitting lower kingdoms isn't working, but I'll chalk that up to me being salty.

I hope some solution can be found because I love playing them, but it's hard to find them viable in their current state.

Nolio

Lord Thane For gnomes, I think it's important they live in Alderd to get racial bonuses, they really need it.

What is the racial bonus they get?

Lord Thane

Mack10 Oh yeah I think it makes total sense for them to have a housing buff, and they really need it since TC units requires massive use of pop, and I have at least 1/2 and sometimes 2/3 my pop just for wood production which is crazy lmao

I don't agree with raising the armory production more though, even when I was running heavy TC it was not a problem as long as I kept it running all the time and kept a stockpile. Not to say it's not a difficulty for people, but every race has difficulties and sometimes they just need to figure it out.

King Haybol

Mack10 Nope, I didn't ask for any resources on my provmate. Yeah I agree on the population because Gnome really consume too much pops on TC troops especially during wars. ☺️☺️☺️

DougEfresh

Lord Thane are you making lots of attacks? I was losing 2k fodder a hit last round.
How are you keeping up on slings and spears?

Lord Thane

DougEfresh no I'm not attacking anyone. I'm getting attacked everyday though, luckily been repelling them ever since the <70% rule went into effect, not getting BFed anymore.

I think my armies would be in better shape if I was attacking, better than getting zeroed out by BFers.

When I can get the barracks tech then I think I will go 1:1 medical centers. I'm actually trying to figure out how I can adjust things to get MC now, just not sure what to sacrifice, my wood or housing.

DougEfresh

Nolio i like the idea of them being 2/2 with half training speed.
also on the pop thing, i dunno what the bonus on gaining is in racial province vs lithar, and ive only played gnome in lithar, but it should be higher than other races since you burning through pop every attack.

DougEfresh

Nolio pretty sure hes talking about population growth rate. at least gnomes got all the other ones in lithar.
i havent paid any attention to it this round cuz it doesnt affect me like it did as a gnome

Lord Thane

Nolio we didn't publish the provincial bonuses, but they're definitely worth it for gnome, including an increased birth rate to refill pop faster.

We may tweak the housing for gnomes this round, but other major changes would probably need to go into next round. Orcs and Elves also have wishlists for tweaking their units, so it would be better to bundle those changes all together before a round starts so people know what they're getting into.

We had a lotttt of gnomes in the test rounds, I think people just wanted to try something new and so gnomes didn't get well represented.

Nolio

DougEfresh I noticed that the growth rate was identical to everyone else, but that I started with a slight bit more pop than other races. I started with 10 more population

Nolio

Lord Thane we didn't publish the provincial bonuses, but they're definitely worth it for gnome, including an increased birth rate to refill pop faster.

Things like this would be incredibly helpful to know. I get why you went into Alderd to play now given that you know these things. If I knew what kind of benefits each one gets, it would help me choose a race and province more carefully.

I personally hate when things are ambiguous within games like this. Not for the sake of min maxing, but just to know if things are useful and if they sound fun.

Please publish as much of the info as you can, when you get around to it. I know there's a lot on your guys' plate so it's not a priority, but the "fun in the mystery" is definitely not something that applies to me. And seeing as almost no one else went gnome, statistically it doesn't seem like they believe it either.

DougEfresh

Nolio the fun in mystery doesnt apply to anyone who plays this game. i voted hard no on gnome based on my experience in the last round. is there an increase forge rate for aldred? any of the inactives wanna lets us know?

Cora

Nolio I would say going racial province is beneficial for any race. I see quite a difference in my resource production this round since I was encouraged to go into a Lithar province. I definitely prefer the racial bonus.