A Lot lost

Thecatman

Lord Thane lol yah I definitely don't feel like elf has a weak army at all. Not the best sure but me and my prov have been able to handle our own I would say. Probably a different story if there was a bunch of dwarves around though

Sun Tzu

So this is an actual legal BR? So he had 3500 mages at 37k ks?

Ok.

FriendsInSpace

Sun Tzu Why do you assume 3500 mages?

trupheus

I shouldn't bother trying, but some will be able to understand this.

If you look ahead to when SB/LA/HA have been researched, it's very clear in the data that Elf is the bottom of the totem pole. We're not there yet this round but we will get there.

Below is single-number production efficiency purely based on stat efficiency per 1000 gold. This converts all iron and wood costs to 100:1 to get every unit into gold cost. The market will go up and down which can sway these numbers some, but you can always buy at that rate.

What this means across all Human units, you get 42.96 points worth of combat power (attack + defense + ranged) per 1000 gold spent.

This isn't the end all be all either, one of the beauties of Thardferr is that matchups make fights. Think of it as rock, paper, scissors with the strengths and weaknesses of Orc/Gnome/Dwarf/Elf, and then the nuke is Human. Orc is good vs Dwarf. Dwarf is good vs Gnome and Elf. Gnome and Elf are good vs Orc. Gnome vs Elf is a blood bath.

Strider

trupheus take into effect racial bonuses and actual cost of supplies. Average cost of wood is probably closer to 60 or 75

Thecatman

trupheus what are you putting for cara?

trupheus

Strider

I’ll be able to do it later. Not at home right now. The fluctuations in cost are going to obviously make a difference. That’s why I went with the guaranteed 100:1 from the vendor. There’s many variables that start to really complicate the entire thing especially considering every kingdom can be run different. I’ll keep playing around with it because this is like a fun version of work for me. Other things to figure out how to incorporate, “typical” train rate, racial bonuses, forge speed.

trupheus

Thecatman

Good question. Assuming 4/4 base. Then with full SB and HA. They’re a wildcard though as we all know they scale up or down.

Sun Tzu

FriendsInSpace

Total defence for the orc given 1 SB 1 LB: 13,740
Total attack of the orc: 23,709
Total range: 2296

Total attack of what you lost: 1,907
Total range of what you lost: 2,336
Means 9497 attack/range unexplained.

Ok, maybe this would mean you sent 2000 mages more or less.

Still an elf with 2000 mages at 30k ks, seems a bit excessive. It's possible but excessive.

This is a simplistic analysis but this is what leads me to think you had that many mages, which would be unsustainable at this stage. Maybe I'm wrong but this is my crude analysis. Forgive me if I'm wrong.

Sun Tzu

Also what you lost had a defense of 2,720.
The orc's attack should have been 10 times that.
So your mages hid in Melee, that's what I'm thinking. Or your mages killed all the SW in range phase, which indicates 2000 mages.

trupheus

with range tech and energy gathering it could be done with as little as 500 mage 750 archer 500 EA. that's only 44 GH.

elves are a very expensive glass cannon. make it past long range and get to those mages/archer/ea and lots of death happens. later in the game the high defense values of humans and dwarves, they just squish elves.

if caragous were redesigned to basically be a mounted heavy infantry... that would be interesting. they've always felt like an unfinished project. maybe caragous absorbed power from wizards... up to a certain point.

skigglez

trupheus
Does anyone know what caragous scales up to, like what's the max attack/defense that they can hit? I know it's one of Thardferr's mysteries, but I don't think that a core unit of an army should be left up to mystery and nobody knows what it does

Strider

skigglez not sure about this version, but old thardferr in round 7 or so I ran all caragous amd it was absolutely lethal to every race except gnome. Im guessing that it was 20/15 or something close. Was often times +15:1 kill death ratio

TheKeeper

Strider OMG Very close, but have the same atk/def

skigglez

Strider
But why are we guessing - can we just know what the unit does? It seems so odd to not reveal what a unit does

trupheus

damnit. am i going to have to test this?

skigglez

trupheus
Why test, can’t they just say what it does lol

Lord Thane

skigglez we can't just un-do 30 years of canon on a whim lol. We talked about it before and decided not to publish the info. We'll keep thinking about it.

skigglez

Lord Thane
Just message me in game, promise i won’t share lol

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