Important Question

Sun Tzu

Also, once the defender is out of protection, the offender can get his "newborn friend" to attack him again and make sure he doesn't get retalled. If you insist on 24h protection for the attacker, at least match it for the defender.

Lord Thane

Sun Tzu we talked a bit about situations involving protection times recently here:
https://forum.thardferr.com/d/358-protection-times/

Those issues would need to be overcome with a solution before being able to increase protection times.

Lord Thane

Sun Tzu cli has to specifically be able to match retal length in order to perform its main function of preventing pre-re. If we made cli only work on up-hits we might as well just block all down-hits because nobody will down-hit because they would all get pre-re. That idea is a game breaker in its current form as presented imo.

For the alternative, buffing retals for smaller kingdoms, they already got the buff during the down-hit. I think if we buff them even further then attackers just won't attack down at all anymore. That shrinks the potential attack pool, encourages farming, discourages attacks even more (it's already extremely risky).

Sun Tzu

Lord Thane

So pre/re is bad but getting hit 2 times by your enemy and his "newborn" before your retal runs out is fair game?

I don't mean to argue just for the sake of argument. I just fail to understand the logic. The minute I understand the logic, I'll shut up about it.

Lord Thane

Sun Tzu your argument isn't really valid though. I mean yeah your protection can run out and then get hit by the same guy again, or by his ally, in either case you then have 2 retals available that you can work on. You can have your ally help with a pretal if possible and then take your retal. Or you can wait until the 14th hour of your protection and use your retal to get another 24h. Your retal doesn't give a retal, so you can throw 100% of your troops in the retal. Shoot, with the new protection stone item you can throw 100% of your troops on a retal and then enjoy 48 hours of protection from everyone.

The only way that scenario is really hopeless is if you don't do anything. We can't change game rules to help a kingdom that's not doing anything, doing nothing is not a valid strategy.

Sun Tzu

Lord Thane

What if I'm sleeping during tick 14? I can't control when I'm attacked. It just seems a very narrow amount of strategies to retal just to keep the defender at lower protection than the attacker.

Lord Thane

Sun Tzu oh come on man, I just gave like 5 different ideas to try, there's lots of possibilities. Plus, you said you're gnome? You can quickly pump out a ton of TC units and get that retal asap. Have you invested in some schools and wizards yet? Having Truesight capability is worth it! Or make friends with an elf to cast for you. You can get the Truesight, calculate what you need, then send everything for the retal, then you have a long time to rebuild.

In your retal, remember they're only defending with 70-80% of whatever troops they have left at home, so it's even better chances for you to win it.

Maybe you won't be able to win every retal, but I bet you can win a lot of them. Want me to cast a truesight for you now? I have 2k wizards available I can do it, just post the kingdom and I will delete your comment with it and post up the anonimized TS lol

Cora

Lord Thane @Sun Tzu also, even if you don’t win on the retal, you still kill units, which makes them have to rebuild. Taking your retal isn’t for nothing.

Jets

Hear me out. If people voted for the retals giving retals, people would retal less due to consequences.

Cora

Jets agreed

Nolio

I think if you pair this with Defenders get more pro than attackers, it would greatly help the game.

Retals and CLI stay the same lengths as one another to prevent the pre/re like Thane wants, but you set it to 15 hours. Defenders get 20 hours or protection. This allows for defenders to decide if they can retal within the 15 without a pre, or ride out the extra 5 to rebuild.

Sun Tzu

Nolio this!

Xliest

We suggested so many alternatives to CLi, no Retals, retals give retals, a small amount of protection to defend against pre-re in the same tick, all were abandoned in favour of this system that highly benefits the attacker. And larger attackers at that…

KingLear

Sun Tzu your suggestion will be in favor of upperfeeding. Too much favor given now for the lower ks vs higher ks. The penalty is too much already. Yet you still beg for more.

Blahblah

Guys where were you when we discussed this before cli started? The game is set up to benefit the victor. Def or att victor has the benefit. Lose and you are screwed. Doesn't matter what game plan is made. you are forced to play the style the game wants you to. Making mc's doesn't help you win def but it allows you to maybe have 10 to 15% more troops than they do def when you hit back. You cant out train them and you would have to take your Retal right away otherwise your screwed. No one wants to dump buildings to make buildings to train faster and buy supplies off market costing them astronomical supplies to try and get back a castle and land that almost impossible to get back until gate. Thats why tech also is important. but lets have thane run a test round before we.. oh..... wait. nope. too late to test. I have been posted against cli being the same length as a Retal right. Always said it should be atleast 4 hrs less than a Retal right. But then again ive been advising raising the Elven def for their units on atleast the Archers by 1. @Lord Thane Still waiting for my Espionage GuardTowers. lol I want to test this as soon as you put something together.

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