Dwarf BRs Are Off

Lord Thane

Nolio it's because something about "you can't defend all castles with 100% of troops because the castles are all spread out across your kingdom" yadda yadda. I mean technically we should be just defending with a % divided by how many castles we have if we were doing it totally fair? It's because Castles are one of the very unique parts of Thardferr that other similar style games didn't have, and warfare was always meant to be centered around "castle based warfare", so there needed to be something made to account for that weirdness of having many castles to defend - and maybe it was also a fix to appease players angry about losing all their armies on defense.

In the very early times of old old Thardferr there was one mad lad who ran 1 castle and explored huge amounts of land, so he would always defend with 100%, and he got the #1 spot that round if I remember - or maybe he was taken down by suiciders in the last week, hard to remember. Anyways, that's why we have the max buildings per castle rule after that lol

King Haybol

Lord Thane Is the Battle Report below not bugged? In terms of iron alone, my legions have more than 66K, while my enemy has less than 10K. Lol 😂😂😂

At: 22:02 on July 15, 2025
My Lord, our troops fought with all versus Cheddar at Tuth-11 , but we were unable to invade. We had bloody falls in battle and we were unable to stand firm in battle, we were obligated to retire from the field.

We managed to kill : 608 Knight 2127 Infantry 1154 Pikeman 2 Heavy Infantry 1198 Archer 521 Mounted Archers

But we lost : 354 Dark Knight 33053 Skeletal Legion 789 Wraith Pikeman 235 Abomination Caragous 906 Phantom Archer 319 Wraith Rider

Nolio

King Haybol We can break it down, but I don't know what the value of undead units are. But if the gold and wood are relatively close, then that kind of discrepancy in iron means there's something funky going on. Either he had way more stuff than you that just crushed whatever forces you have, a strategy messed things up either as intended or as a bug, or something else is going on.

It could be bugged, or working as intended.

As Thane has been pointing out to me, there are a lot of things at play that affect the values. The hardest part for you is that you're using a race that hasn't been rigorously tested, so we have no idea how it performs in the many different situations.

That looks awful though, and I get the heavy resource losses though for me it's the wood that hurts.

Lord Thane

King Haybol In long range you put up almost 4k attack power, while the defender put out over 13k, which was enough to wipe out everything on your side other than the Skeletons which took no damage.

In the short range the defender was able to put out more than 4k attack damages against your skeletons, incurring a loss of over 4k units.

In the melee phase your remaining skeletons were able to put out 36k attack points, which accounts for the vast majority of your kills against the defender - but they output over 58k attack points in response which obliterated your skeletons.

End result, you got zeroed out.

I think you would have faired better with no strategy rather than the Undead racial strat, or maybe even Infantry Attack to give the skeletons a big boost to attack power (go from base 33k to 82k attack), although that would have resulted in higher casualties on the skeletons so maybe No Strat would have been the best option in this case... Although I don't know if you'd have been able to win this battle in either case, because they had a higher attack and higher defense than you - by quite a lot too.

It's also a bit of a mismatched battle too - your racial strategy is designed to make you especially powerful against an opponent that has a lot of ranged and low melee, and the guy you hit actually had a huge amount of melee and not very much ranged, so your main advantage didn't really help much.

King Haybol

Lord Thane alright, yeah I'll do it better next time. 🫢🫢🫢

Thecatman

So thats how infantry attack works? I thought it just increased the damage your infantry took in exchange for reducing damage to your other units? So it buffs your infantry's attack power and reduces damage to your other units?

Lord Thane

Thecatman yep, it's like giving them some crack or something, frenzy them to attack, it makes them much weaker so they die faster, but it makes your other units survivability better.

Thecatman

oh god that is inbalanced, with % increase to sharper blades and infantry attack affecting hammer whielders and axemen that seems insane lol

King Haybol

Thecatman Not sure why you said this? Are you using the Undead race right now? Because everything is really unbalanced with super weak legion and very expensive. It's difficult to manage an Undead in general. You really wanted us to be in the last page of the ranks? 😅😅😅

Thecatman

Can that be clarified in the guide and in game? Everywhere else when theres a buff to attack it mentions it as attack not damage. The strat only says damage so we were always under the assumption it had zero affect on attack power.

Lord Thane

Thecatman yeah, Abakar really had a way with words. If we'd gone the other way of taking the word 'damages' we'd be reducing the infantry defense points by -60% and I guess redistributing those points to the other units. Seems like a weird strategy if we went that way, not really sure what advantage use it would be.

skigglez

King Haybol
If SB gives +1 at each rank, undead becomes extremely competitive in my opinion

Thecatman

Yah sorry man I wasnt responding to your posts, was just talking in general. I know nothing about undead lol If anything we agree with each other, I'm playing orc and if things stay the same I'm gonna be fodder for the dwarves right along with you lol

King Haybol

Thecatman Alright 😄😄😄
@Lord Thane, I've completely reshaped my economy, sacrificing my MC, GT, Schools, and even my Mills – all just to pump out more mines. My entire strategy now hinges on this high mine-to-everything-else ratio, hoping it's enough to weather these relentless daily enemy attacks. Honestly, I'm not sure if this is a viable long-term strategy. I desperately wish constructing mines was as cheap as building mills, because my gold reserves are dwindling fast, and frankly, my troops are eating through resources at an alarming rate. Lol 🫢🫢🫢

FriendsInSpace

Lord Thane

I thought about this some more and I still think that this strat is broken. The downside of having to run a high percentage of SB's is offset by the fact that dwarves melee is among the best in the game, Axe men have the highest raw melee damage stats of any unit.

So if we were to have a dwarf run 50/50 SB and AM on shield line, not only is LR completely nullified, the SB's then tank hits from the equivalent of 1.25 knights each, while the axe men just shred. The only counter i see to this is another dwarf running no SB's and pure AM/HW to out melee him.

The problem lies with the fact that the SB's still are able to tank hits from every single raw unit in the game after they nullify the range. Yeah they don't kill anything, but that doesn't matter while they are keeping the majority of their army alive in melee. The only real counter is a full melee army, which only really another dwarf can pull off. Knights and heavy infantry are too expensive/slow, elves and gnomes LOL, and orcs maybe with a massive shitpile of SW, but they train at 75% of the speed of SB so they will get outpaced in a protracted conflict easily.

Possible solutions:
1) Instead of a percentage nullification, have the SB's be able to absorb a set amount of ranged damage each. Say 10 or 15, on top of their defence.
2) Shield bearers defence reduced to a hard 5 (unupgradeable) in melee/take triple damage from mounted units while keeping the nullification. Would make sense they can't move their shields around to defend after they've absorbed 20000 arrows or 50 ballista bolts.
3) Increase the training time of SB's, if they are able to nullify cats, they should take at least as long. Probably needs to be mixed with some other fixes though.

I'm all for having races counter other ones, but dwarves are a hard counter to two separate races, and supposedly only really weak to orcs, but the one orc BR i've seen so far doesn't show that weakness. Plus when I look at the KHOF and see nearly half of the top 30 have the ability to just make my army nothing, it doesn't give me a good feeling. Especially since as an elf there's basically nothing I can do to fight back when they start hitting.

Thecatman

Dwarves are currently upfeeding their supposed counter race and crushing them with full army home, there isn't a race that they can't go toe to toe with and win. Have ranged? They dunk you. Melee heavy with mounted units? Out stat you and still dunked lol what's their weakness now exactly?

skigglez

Thecatman
The weakness is supposed to be expensive units that take a long time to replenish - but with the marketplace gold cost isn't really a thing. And with the current armor scaling their units aren't dying at the rate they would have historically died at in prior versions of the game (1:1MC as well). At least that's been my experience playing dwarf this round - in every castle trade scenario came out significantly ahead in KS on the guy that I traded castles with.

Lord Thane

King Haybol yeah I make like 80k wood per day just to replenish losses from defending, and I still gotta buy some. Welcome to the club 😂

Lord Thane

If the tech upgrades weren't % based then we'd see Orcs and Gnomes and Elves have a much better chance in all battles.

As I already demonstrated, the techs are making humans/dwarves OP (perhaps Dwarves more OP once built up, but humans can build up faster/cheaper, so meh).

Discussion about changing 30+ year old game mechanics that worked perfectly fine for years isn't really helping the balance discussion - what we really need is to continue getting some of those +30 year old rules back in place (the point tech upgrades).

Once the techs are fixed then the game will be much better balanced, and the weaker races will stand a better chance with their respective units.

FriendsInSpace

Lord Thane I'm willing to wait to see how it all plays out after the techs are fixed, mainly because I have no choice lol, but if I was a betting man I'd still say you will see an imbalance of dwarves in the top.

But, I suppose lets see how it all plays out. I've been wrong before.

FriendsInSpace

Lord Thane Actually, question for you about sharper blades. Do caragous double dip on the benefit, seeing as they have both a sword and a lance?

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