Tech Upgrades Major Change Implemented

Zown

Lord Thane There was an additional battle after the tech upgrades. I had a serious misplay by creating an army with a ton of archers, expecting quick back-to-back battles. He took 3 days to fully recover his army, and I was sitting there the whole time with a full army. That attack failed, and I'm guessing only his Skeletal Legion is immune to long range. I also have a ton more mages, so I think he wouldn't stand a chance now. Although he has only fallen further down since we last battled. I'm going to start looking to attack stronger undead to see if they will lose to me.

On July 17, 2025 at 01:02:21:

My Lord, our troop's say that someone from MAGNNIFICUM at Lithar-3 tried to invade us.
It seems to be armed with few rocks and some sticks, cause they were nothing among our troops.
At last they run like little girls.

We managed to kill : 35 Dark Knight 1000 Skeletal Legion 76 Wraith Pikeman 28 Abomination Caragous 95 Phantom Archer 91 Wraith Rider

But we lost : 5 Mage 297 Swordman 186 Lanceman 0 Caragous 710 Archer 45 Elite Archer

On July 16, 2025 at 21:48:45:

🛠️ Research Breakthrough! Tech Overhaul Arrived! 🛡️

Lord Thane

Zown yeah that battle report actually went really well for him considering the huge kill on your archers (economically good for him, considering costs). The archers probably output a huge amount of attack compared to what he did in long range, but I bet 80% of it was a waste since his skeletons were immune and bypassed it completely. The archers did help you on defense though - not by providing any attack power but by becoming fodder to absorb his skeleton attack lol

In that battle reports case, I think he ran the right strat, because the army composition was highly skewed toward the skeletons. If he didn't use his racial strat, your archers probably would have completely zeroed him out in long range. He just didn't have quite enough force to actually attain the win conditions.

Blahblah

xiAo-Shin Star no but when you build an army with mass units specifically ment for kill8ng those races yes your going to fail. Every single undead I've faces was missing 10 to 15k legions. 2k of like only three other units.

King Haybol

Blahblah I think you're only focusing on legions. Please note that most of us also utilize other troop types, and our builds are typically mixed-troop compositions. 😇😇😇

Zown

Lord Thane
Thank you for looking into it. Sounds like it wasn't too far off in the battles. Can you tell why my KS is so low compared to everyone else with land size around mine? Is it just a technology difference or related to my build? How come undead seem like they take so long to recover? I feel like a kingdom that was consistently higher than me in KS should have been harder to deal with, especially since his race counters mine, and he has way more tech than me.

Blahblah

King Haybol like I said, you guys are mostly using the legion unit, not enough of the others, but either way, you're still not going to fare as well. When more than fifty percent of your army is just legion.Yeah it's gonna suck. I would have loved to have tested on dead myself.But did not have time to. I had only gotten to test elf, which I knew their magic was very efficient, at the least their military units suck pretty badly. They don't fare well against mealy attack races, which is understandable, but they seem not to farewell against anybody. The dwarf has been pretty stout. There have been issues with it. Some that I was not aware of. Hopefully, we get another test round before we launch into round two.

Thecatman

Zown What kind of biulding ratios are you running? Your KS to land is quite low, especially for an elf. Usually elves will run schools with wizards and that inflates your KS quite a bit. Whats your Guard House to land ratio? Seems like you might be a little light on the military side

Zown

Thecatman
ATC - 0:1
Farm - 1:1
forge - .1:1
GH - .5:1
GT - 0:1
House - 5:1
Market - 1:1
MC - 0:1
Mill - 1:1
Mine - 1:1
School - 0:1
TC - .4:1

I find this perfectly allows me to sustain and rebuild without ever needing to wait for anything. Once I get food reduction for population and extra people per house, I'll switch it up a little to:

Farm - .5:1
GH - 1:1
House - 4:1
School - 1:1

This should allow me to start using spells and hopefully spec into the Gate spell, and then I can start attacking freely again. It might take me a week to get there, though. I have to finish all the attack power techs first.

Thecatman

Before I switched to Orc i was elf from the beginning of the round and with over 1:1 schools and around 1:1 GH per land i was closing in on 400 KS per land

Zown

Blahblah
Can you guys tell me if, when you do the mass legion strategy and send them all on their own in the first attack, you'll have more success with the follow-up attack using the rest of your units versus all at once? I feel like the legion might skip the long-range battle phase and land huge hits on the opponent's long-range units, weakening the others as well. Then, you can send your main force or rebuild legions if not enough long-range units are lost. The idea is to use the legion as a scouting or staging strategy while your main force builds up, and once you confirm their long-range units are down, send in the rest of your army. That should guarantee a win. I haven't played Undead, so I'm unsure how long it takes for legions to rebuild or what their costs are. If you can wipe out their long-range units with your legion, it basically grants your entire army long-range immunity; you'd just take a hit on BAS.

Thecatman

Zown Issue with that is if you attack someone twice you are giving out 2 retals, you might take 1 castle to almost guaranteed lose 2 after your opponent knows your army isnt home.

Thecatman

Oh ok that explains it. Your houses are quite high and GH is pretty low. You should try for around 1:1 GH if you plan on attacking regularly and its probably a good idea to start working in some ATC as well. The units are stronger for the same GH space and it lets you train more troops per tick than just TC. Right now you are missing your heavy hitters and just building your shitty fodder units that always die anyways. MC's are also very good, at 1:1 land you recover 20% of your losses on both offense and defense, reducing the amount of weapons and training time it takes to recover, can run a bigger army with less resources and you will have more troops available after someone hits you to take your retal with right away if you want.

Also Elf make good casters, if you plan on running schools in the future just start now, wizards take forever to train and have low upkeep. MP is very valuable, just selling a little bit of that will fund your kingdom well. People are willing to spend almost 200G per so if you mess around a bit and see what you can produce over the course of a day you will see how much gold you can make. Good way to make friends too as no one likes their MP supply being messed with lol

Your farms are probably going to have to increase though, its hard to get away with 1:1 with a good army especially if you are attacking and paying double food upkeep. Lowering your houses will help with this as well regardless of the food tech.

I suspect the reason your land is so high for your KS is you have so much excess population you are exploring land constantly which is good for your economy but it makes you a target (we call that land fat) and will get you attacked more often than other people around you.

Zown

Thecatman
I agree that is probably the way to do it at the start of the round; however, since I am a solo kingdom and started late, I feel like I have to play safer than normal until I can catch up on the big techs. I am basically turtling up in a way that will keep my kingdom strong, easy to rebuild, and stack resources for when I break out of my turtle. The schools and magic sound nice, but it's either max population, so I can gain land for free and have tons of resources coming in, or a 10% resource buff. Doesn't seem worth it. Plus, if anyone does attack, I'm planning to use my high castles to make up for my lack in ATC to still get some heavy units created (not caragous, cuz they are worthless) and exploit infantry attack and mages to wipe out their long range and have an invincible force to win later battle rounds with. Infantry attack and the tech attack upgrades should make my TC units pretty strong, and if I did the math correctly, the infantry attack should make my units almost untouchable for the first round or two of fighting until all the swordsmen die. The only thing messing it up is these undead.

Thecatman

If you plan on using magic I would recommend immediately dropping houses to start making schools. Like I said wizards train slowly and you need a lot of them to use magic properly. Techs arent necessary for elf to use magic, you can use it right at the start of the round if you want to. Also with gate, it is a very strong spell but remember it breaks protection(pretty sure it does anyways hopefully im corrected if im wrong) and a random percentage of your troops will die using gate. Think its between 0 and 25%? Just letting you know there is a downside to the spell. The real gem in that tech is Gods Blessing. Best spell in the game, just dont fail it because it will mess your kingdom up for a little bit lol

Zown

Thecatman
Yeah, but can't undead build 2:GH? If you just hold back 20% of your main force after your second attack, wouldn't that basically be equal to about 40-80% of their main force? Plus, your legion rebuilds quickly. If they ever attack back, you would easily summon a legion army to spam them, right? I feel like the fact you don't need food is kind of busted, and you just need to plan attacking in two phases with undead, and you should be able to outscale anyone you are already higher in KS than. They seem OP to me, but I haven't played them yet.

Lord Thane

@Thecatman hit it on the head about military. You should have probably at least 2-3x as many total units as you do now, definitely 3x as many ranged units. Ranged is one of your more powerful units, and they get to attack first before short/melee, so they can help your melee units by thinning out the enemy - especially useful against orcs/humans. I see what you mean about working to hard counter the Undead, but it's not something the elves are really well suited for - they have weaker armor that doesn't make for great melee, unless its lancemen against orcs.

I would suggest building some ATC buildings and pushing those. The Caragous are a mystery unit, but they have an enormous potential as part of your attack strategy against humans/dwarf/elf foes (not so much against fodder races). The elite archer and mage are very powerful though, especially with that bow tech.

Another elf near your ks and much less land does have 3 more techs that is giving them a ke boost, but they also have more than 3k military than you do, which heavily increases ks.

Like catman said you're pretty economically fat at the moment, need to consolidate and build up a stronger force.

Zown

Lord Thane
Interesting. So you are confirming the same thing @Thecatman is saying as well. So everyone around me is running 1:1 with half my land and invested into schools, and I'm running .5:1 with double the land, giving me double the resources? It sounds like anyone equal to my land is double my KS and out of my attack range anyway. Making everyone at my KS equal only in the army, and will ultimately lose the long battle since I have stocked up on unlimited resources.

Lord Thane

Zown you need to talk to our Pinoy players about this - they'll have some words about it lol... I haven't played undead yet, but gotten some intense complaints. It's the first round with Undead in the mix, so everyone is still learning, maybe your strategy has some merit 🤔

xiAo-Shin Star

Zown
Your idea is great, however I don't know if there is anyone here want to risk with that and give out 2 retals. Yes indeed, Undead can build up Skeletons that fast, but if is not good to defend your kingdom. Believe me, we all tried. In our team here, we have pure Legions, 1/3 ATCs and Legions. While me, all round armies with 50% Skeletons. We failed to defend our Kingdom while Attacking cost us more casualties.

Plus, I don't think sending out Legions can help that much. They are weak they may immune to Long Range but they cannot sustain much in Melee and Short range which lead them killed before reaching the enemies Range armies. Maybe, if maybe Legion are also immune to Short Range which I have been suggested. They can put up a fight at least to be able to reach the long range on the other side and kill a few. 1 strike of melee will easily kill the Legion. Let's say 1 infantry/sword = 5 skeletons.

Zown

Lord Thane
Now that I think about it more, I believe the KS bug I'm seeing results from a flat KS per unit and wizard. There might be around 3-4 KS per unit and .5-1 KS per wizard. While that doesn't seem like much, it has a significant impact on gameplay when considering that GHs have the same limit across all races. As you mentioned in your recent update, humans and dwarves receive the biggest boost in technology upgrades for units, and they already have some of the high-stat, heavy units. So, when kingdoms max out on GHs' space, those races will naturally develop stronger militaries compared to races packed with fodder units. The KS each unit provides should probably depend on stats somehow, and wizards should probably give less KS initially, scaling up as more powerful spells become available.
People see my kingdom with abundant land and assume I'm an easy target because of my KS, but they don't realize their schools aren't giving them as much advantage as my land does, and their military is only somewhat comparable because they're also boosted in KS from technology.
I think that's what kept happening to @Adamastor, and why it feels frustrating on his end. I have equal GHs but with higher stat units and nearly unlimited resources, yet the KS indicates he is at least 10k-15k higher. When he rebuilds his KS, skyrockets in comparison, so I look like an even easier target, only to find out I'm still stronger. And the whole time, he is waiting on resources to rebuild as he described.

Nolio

xiAo-Shin Star I agree with you that Zown's idea sounds good but giving up 2 retals seems like too big of a risk for an undead player.

What I can say to you point about Skeletal Legion compared to Human infantry, because gnome infantry is much weaker, is that while you are correct that a 1 to 1 Skeletal Legion to Infantry, the infantry will kill 5 skeletons, and it take 3 skeletons to kill 1 infantry, Infantry train at 1/30 the speed.

So in the time it takes to make 1 infantry, you can make 30 Skeletal Legion. You outpace the humans in production, and that wins in 1v1 fights.

The problem I tend to have with fodder units is that it's unsustainable to keep building that much armory. You may have noticed the same issue, or perhaps that's not been an issue for you.

What I have seen is that Undead has some pretty strong units. You Knights are slightly better than Human Knights in my opinion since they cost a little less but have the same stats. How do the other units feel to you guys?

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