Did I get him or he got me?

skigglez

xiAo-Shin Star
those losses don't look that bad to be honest, definitely not forum worthy lol

xiAo-Shin Star

skigglez
Oh come on.. It's my way of releasing stress. Just let me, and don't mind me.

xiAo-Shin Star

FriendsInSpace
Idk why I have them either lol.
They cost alot and kinda weak.

FriendsInSpace

I've played around with elf caragous a lot, and they just aren't worth the cost. You can't sustain the numbers required to make them useful unless you run 100%

skigglez

FriendsInSpace
There's gotta be enough data out there to support them being absolute ass. I like the idea of them scaling, but would be interesting to see them scale with your own army size, similar to how SB on shield line functions. That way YOU can control what stats they are, and not get absolutely hammered by an undead legion swarm.

xiAo-Shin Star

Way back 2000s I was doing pure caragous on elf. They are bad ass with Infantry attack. Idk if it works good now.

Lord Thane

xiAo-Shin Star that's what I wanna do, 100% caragous and see what happens. Maybe next round ☺️

xiAo-Shin Star

Lord Thane
I'm rooting for you. I wanna know the result.

trupheus

Lord Thane

Even at a 40% mage and 60% Caragous composition, the performance is underwhelming. The retraining time is excessive, and at best, they function as 4/3 units when facing high-fodder armies. I believe there’s merit in exploring a design where they operate similarly to Shieldbearers on Shieldline, with their stats scaling based on the composition of your army. Another potential approach would be to lower the ceiling while raising the floor. For example, instead of a 1/1 minimum and 20/20 maximum, consider adjusting the range to a 5/5 minimum and a 16/16 maximum.

Strider

Lord Thane 100% caragous at the numbers needed to get them to a point that its beneficial is no longer possible with i2g changed.

I did this one round when i2g was just free gold, and even then it took a long time to get enough of them to have high enough stats to be able to somewhat war.

I had to run 3+ schools and cast i2g about 60 times a day to manage it. They train too slow and cost too much for it to be possible now

Blahblah

trupheus yeah i have seen the BRs and its devastating the cost and retrain times for these units.

Thecatman

trupheus I found the same before when I was playing elf. Cara are extremely expensive and train too slow for the stats they give. With Undead in the game now too half the races have cheap fodder units they can spam to make cara weaker. Would be kinda cool if Cara could be made stronger through spellcasting somehow to tie into the magic theme a bit more. Maybe they get +2/+2 for every 1 school per land or something like that and adjust the base stats accordingly.

trupheus

Thecatman

Oh now that's an interesting idea to have Caragous scale with schools per land. I think I like it?

skigglez

would be a way to allow elves to invest in magic without giving up too much combat power. Dominion used that type of scaling alot

Thecatman

It wouldnt have to necessarily be schools but something that gives elf a bit more punch when running magic. Right now if you run schools/wiz it inflates your KS wayyy too much so even if you are fighting someone the same size if they are pure military they are actually much stronger than you so to face a similar sized army you need to hit down and take the BF penalty, making your army even worse lol

skigglez

schools produce a set amount of MP per tick (doesn't get generated by wizards), so you could theoretically run them without having to invest a ton into wizards? Elves get a bonus to MP generation, and you allocate population to it similar to other resources? Not sure how much that would impact the game if you added another resource

Sun Tzu

How about this as an idea:

Cara scaling done in two parts:
50% scaling based on Cara % in your own army
50% scaling based on Cara % vs enemy army.

This makes them still weaker-ish against fodder units and still a bit stronger than they are right now, maybe worth running.

Thoughts?

Cora

Sun Tzu interesting concept, but how does it scale against an enemy army that has fodder units?

Sun Tzu

Cora

Same way it does currently. Cara supposed to be weak against fodder.

Cora

Sun Tzu I totally missed that part about fodder units 😅 I thought your whole point in your post was to make that unit useful/strong?

Sun Tzu

Cora

It’s a balancing act. We still gotta have a counter for full Cara army to make sure they don’t become OP. A decent counter is making sure they’re still weak-ish against gnome and orc fodder units, undead SL. This still improves how worthwhile they are currently but leaves vulnerablility albeit a bit less than current.

Cora

Sun Tzu how about a lot more improved than currently 😊 without making them OP

skigglez

Sun Tzu
Have you seen a scenario where a full cara army has actually succeeded? I've seen people try and build a ton of them, the problem is that they are so expensive and slow to train that if you get attacked in the 2 weeks it will take to build the army, you're completely screwed. All that I'm seeing is they are a middle of the line unit at best, yet they cost the same as top tier units. Have yet to see the 20/20 powerhouses overwhelm someone.

I'm talking this round - not some previous version of thardferr.

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