What You Think Of This Multi?

trupheus

You’ve sent me resources for TSs and other spells multiple times. With this idea, that is dead.

Strider

trupheus what if elves are the only race that can receive aid outside of province and only after they have casted. Kind of like a retal right? Maybe cap the amount that can be sent at a % of the income that the spell creates.

If aid is an option, buying spells is great. Im just floating ideas that might solve other issues.

Lord Thane

Strider that'd be fun! You just know some assholes would still make multis to soften up their enemies before they attack though lol

Strider

Lord Thane another option is KYC verification to register.

Couple that with a paid prov vs prov tourney mode that prov that wins the round splits the profit with the site.

Check my comment to Trupheus. Province aid only, except for elves who can issue "send aid" retals with positive spells. Allows casters to sell spells. Cap aid at a % of income the spell produces or multiplier of target kingdoms land.

One more buff for elves that I think they still need but not OP.

Nolio

I love the thought of intraprovincial trading, it sounds good but has a major flaw. It limits casters. If I'm in a province of Gnomes, which I have been many times, we don't have a caster. So we pay for that outside of our province. I don't want to get rid of that kind of comradery.

To paraphrase @Enphetamy, I would rather put up with multis than to cut out this social aspect of the game.

Lord Thane

Nolio I think if we put it up to a poll most users would probably rather have no aid than play against multis. That's pretty much the options, because spending 10 hours per month every month investigating multis is untenable.

I think inner-province aid limiting is a go. And then we will have to figure out a new way of expanding features for casters to continue selling spells. Maybe we can add more spells to the MP list which would then make MP more valuable. Obviously don't just want to make elves MP Whores®, so we'll need to collectively think of some creative way we can get them casting selling ability that's not easily abusable by multis. My first idea was making a contract system in the market where the market would act as an escrow - which is functionally just Send Aid with extra steps and public ledgering, so idk if that's a very good solution.

FriendsInSpace

Nolio Make intra-province trade free but inter-province trade subject to a hefty tax, those resources from the market have to come from somewhere ya know.

FriendsInSpace

Lord Thane Making elves just MP whores doesnt just make it boring for caster elves, it actually removes a social element of the game, because the MP just becomes anonymously sent resources. Whereas direct casting, well, who wants to hit their caster?

Vesuvan

Lord Thane Why not make spells directly tradable on the market? I want a famine cast on someone so I reach out to a caster and come up with an agreed upon target and price, then I post the “buy” on the market with an “if/then” clause which is hidden to the public…basically the caster accepts the contract, if they cast then the buy goes through?

Lord Thane

As another added benefit of limiting aid to inner-province, it also helps reduce castle passing alliances, since they will be encouraged to stay in the same province with each other to have aid available. So this measure will directly help weaken the huge alliances and increase the bond of small provincial based alliances.

Lord Thane

FriendsInSpace yeah, that's why we need a creative idea to make it fun and sociable for them. Contracts/escrow in the market would work for that aspect, I think it just needs a little more to be discouraged as the next avenue of abuse by multis.

Lord Thane

Strider omg, friendly-spell-aid-retals, it's as brilliant as it is insane 🍻

I like it though, it does create some barriers for a multi - they have to be elf to benefit, they have to waste wizards to get the gold.

Building the cap in sounds very complex, having a hard time thinking how we could code it to work reliably and fairly. Maybe just a flat cap would work better, we'd have to do that if we had a cap anyways for spells like TS or offensive spells. The next great debate, what is a spell worth lol 🥹

We can work it into the lore too - something like elves are able to receive aid from far away lands via magic mumbo jumbo.

Edit: well now I'm wondering how we could give a "aid retal" when they do a TS or other offensive spell. Hmmm 🤔

Blahblah

Lord Thane Burn the witch!

Strider

Lord Thane Can it be linked to target kingdoms land and then become a multiplier?

Or the gross revenue of that kingdom. Blessing gives 10% of gross revenue for 12 hours. Maximum price could be set at 7.5% gross revenue * 12.

Utilize protection code and change it from attack as the condition to casting.
Utilize attack/retal script and change condition to casting and action to lifting send aid protection for 12 hours while retal credit is active?

Konkistador

Just poll it?

an entire removal of aid and friendly cast. (Market only)(My preferred option as would remove and future noise in this topic)
aid and cast provincial only
Public log of any aid and friend cast activity.

And let the community decide?

And delete any multi accounts and be harsh on the multi owners, would just hold mercy of any of the players here that might be used as a distraction bait in the multi activity business described.

Cora

The problem that I see with prov only spells and aid is that it will really encourage Lithar provs. I rather enjoyed seeing some racial provs this round. If you put a limit on it, there won’t be racial provs next round. Everyone would go Lithar and try to get a caster to join them 🤯

Thecatman

I feel like just having a public ledger for sending aid would solve most of the issues. I know I would check that regularly and some random kingdom never growing and constantly sending aid while getting nothing back would stick out and get noticed right away.

skigglez

Whatever gets changed with aid, the market needs to be looked at too because people will just “send aid” through the market at the minimum price. If you look at the ledger there’s a ton of transactions where people are sending aid through the market because it’s less obvious to the devs. I don’t know if you fix that through updating the minimum price weekly based on the average transaction price or something, but if you don’t change the market too there’s no point doing anything with aid.

skigglez

Some examples to illustrate my point, only looked back 5 days or so:

Jul 25 01:44 - "You" sells "KING HAYBOL" 10k MP at 30 gold each (listings usually around 100 gold each, or higher), then also sells a couple thousand to other listers at 135 and 140 gold - very obviously doing so to only look less suspicious

Jul 21 20:23 - "You" sells "KING HAYBOL" 30k wood at 10 gold each (listings usually around 70 gold)

Jul 20 19:48 - "KING HAYBOL" sells "You" 7800 iron at 180 gold each (weird that when the buyer and seller swap, the price is much higher and at market value, not suspicious at all)

Not saying this is multi abuse - but it's very obvious that the intention here is for one kingdom to be getting the benefit of these exchanges and instead of sending aid they just do it through the market. Every time that "You" participated in the market Haybol was involved, which is quite odd. I only looked at these 2 kingdoms because of the other issues raised from multiple people in the past regarding castle passing and the smaller account being used as a TS machine. That combined with these market transactions (I'm sure there's many more that are equally suspicious, just don't have the time to go that far back but I might this weekend), and it makes things look a lot worse than if you were just looking at how much aid was sent between kingdoms.

Maybe I'm way off base here and am completely wrong about the 2 kingdoms mentioned, but my point is people are going to push the limits on any system that is in place. The question is do you completely change the landscape of sending aid like other people are discussing in posts above to catch a few shady characters? They are going to try and find ways to do is regardless of what is in place, and from the looks of the KHOF it hasn't really made a significant difference.

Lord Thane

Vesuvan that's what my idea for posting a contract and running the market as an escrow is about. The way the escrow works is both seller/buyer have to agree that the contract was fulfilled before the funds get released, it's useful because it protects both parties against fraud.

The only problem with it is it would be easily abusable by multis = the multi posts a job, the multi-owner takes the contract, the multi owner never actually does the spell but they approve the escrow on both sides to transfer the funds. It adds extra annoying steps to multi resource transfers, and has the public record, but is still pretty easily abusable.

I like the idea of only Elves being able to receive aid outside provinces better - it preserves that role of "caster" and boxes in multis to being stuck as an elf if that's what they're going to try doing to continue being a multi. Multis could still try funneling through the market, but it's not as effective, it's highly visible due to the ledger, and we can make it even more useless by raising the minimum threshold for Market auto-buys and max cap for sell orders.

barber319

Lord Thane Free attacks with guaranteed castle? This way those castles don't go to waste

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