CLI

trupheus

Mage 7.7ks
Caragous 9ks
Elite Archer 3.9ks
Swordsman 2.1 ks
Lanceman 2.1ks
Archer 2.4ks

EA give more KS than Balista.

Cora

trupheus no wonder Elves KS are so inflated….

Strider

Lord Thane every round pretty much turns into two large groups fighting and whichever side has more people ends up winning.

Instead of no cli, what if all placement was random and it was even prov numbers vs odd prov numbers. You could request a swap during initial protection, but a kingdom on the other side would need to accept it, and teams rebalance every couple months or month.

You can only send aid or cast friendly spells on your team.

Balanced war and give new players a chance to be embraced by veterans instead of the clicks that always roll together without the need or want to organize with noobs.

Rebalance based on either ks or land with a 2 or 3 day protection to prepare for war.

Cora

Strider this sounds better as a mini round than a permanent thing.

Lord Thane

Strider random placement is how it used to be, in the beginning. It was part of the fun 🙂

Xliest

Strider just get rid of provinces altogether? You just have your spot on the HoF and that’s where you are…

Strider

Lord Thane check out the world war thardferr post. I think that it might help with new player base by breaking up clicks and letting new players immerse themselves in team element with players thatvwpukd otherwise stay in their organized provs and pick lone kingdoms apart.

Strider

Xliest this would be a zero sum change

xiAo-Shin Star

Lord Thane
I got this from one of our mates.

370k vs 200k+

Where's the buff and favored you are talking about? Not even the Penalty works.

Oh, and take note, he got 15ticks protection to recover? No! to get hit again. To finish the defender for good.

We lost 1 Castle(s) sorrounded by 26 lands.
In this lands are also constructed : 12 Advanced Training Center , 36 Farm , 4 Forge , 36 Guard House , 0 Guard Tower , 73 House , 26 Market , 9 Medical Center , 6 Mill , 19 Mine , 21 School , 12 Training Center ,

In this lands also lived 3280 people who left our Kingdom.

We managed to kill : 531 Knight 2591 Infantry 2298 Pikeman 0 Heavy Infantry 3075 Archer 752 Mounted Archers

But we lost : 2622 Knight 3767 Infantry 2793 Pikeman 2379 Heavy Infantry 3514 Archer 3906 Mounted Archers

KingLear

xiAo-Shin Star i guess they change the mechanics again in favor of bottom feeders. 🤔

trupheus

Again, CLI just keeps the big protected. There's no way I was ever winning this fight, we all know elves are as tough as a wet paper bag. I am guessing I was in the 70-80% range when the hit was made.

We managed to kill : 1769 Dark Knight 0 Skeletal Legion 5937 Wraith Pikeman 0 Abomination Caragous 8058 Phantom Archer 3045 Wraith Rider

But we lost : 11577 Mage 0 Swordman 0 Lanceman 17607 Caragous 0 Archer 0 Elite Archer

Cool cool, I have 1:1 MCs. TS before the retal........ nope hard pass nevermind. He wiped my army with more than enough home to deter any retal.

Trupheus losses
Iron: 228,891
Wood: 88,035
Gold: 44,797,365

Attacker Losses
Iron: 85,651
Wood: 40,017
Gold: 9,966,734

AdinTheDark

trupheus

Just another example of how KS difference compounds later in rounds.

skigglez

trupheus Tough to gauge this one because of the late game farm mode effect. I was at 1.8 GH and sent 60%, but both mages and caragous are fairly weak units on defense. One of my normal archers kills a mage, and the caragous were probably pretty close to the bottom end of their scaling since they were significantly outnumbered. Caragous just need a rework - the only use for them is to defend against suicides from much smaller kingdoms. Getting hit from someone larger and they are worse than fodder. Agree with Adin, it does highlight the KS difference problem as well as how wizards can skew the power of a kingdom.

trupheus

AdinTheDark Just another example of how KS difference compounds later in rounds.

I think it highlights the short sightedness of CLI. Early-mid round sure it looked ok. You saw some turnover as everyone was growing. Mid-late round it’s turned into what I thought it would. Those on top remain there. Get someone established at #1 uncontested who feeds others to get up in the KHOF. K19 tried but ultimately hits from others stopped them from going after the king.

Maybe a cutoff where top 15 don’t get CLI. Or the last month CLI is disabled (only if it’s not a tech).

trupheus

skigglez

I only had 30k ks worth of wiztards. You always think I have way more than I do. 🤣

The really inflating factors are that schools give the second most KS per building while providing no offensive threat and caragous give 9ks per unit. So at the time 150k ks was from schools and almost 300k ks were from the worst unit in the game. Recipe for getting FUBAR’d.

Elf, weakest race in the game, had a chance when EQ was insanely overpowered and hitting me would have cost the attacker everything.

For those wondering I was on no strategy. QR would not have mattered. I would have killed less and still been zeroed. EG I would have killed more and still been zeroed.

skigglez

I know I mentioned it before, but I keep going back to these questions/comments regarding CLI and retals:

what percentage of attacks resulting in successful retals would the community consider acceptable? How does that compare to what the actual numbers are showing (Thane/Keeper would be the only ones who know that).
should the game be designed so that every attack from a higher kingdom result in the defender being able to get back what they lost? There seems to be an expectation that every time someone bottom feeds you that you should be entitled to get back what you lost - can't think of any other game where that's the case.
if CLI goes away, is it healthy for the game to be designed for the attacking kingdom to lose double the castles/land that they took in the attack? Wouldn't that encourage more people to farm or to only hit targets at the very low end of their bottom feeding range?
is the castle passing pre/re any more interesting than what CLI offers? I have seen tons of action in the KHOF all round after CLI was implemented, it seems like most of the negative comments stem from it being boring or it encourages bottom feeding. People have lives and aren't able to check their kingdom every hour, so creating too much action in the game will probably be a deterrent for a lot of players.
fairness of CLI and/or bottom feeding only seems to get brought up when someone is on the receiving end of an attack, I haven't seen too many posts from those winning the attack claiming unfairness

trupheus

skigglez what percentage of attacks resulting in successful retals would the community consider acceptable? How does that compare to what the actual numbers are showing (Thane/Keeper would be the only ones who know that).

I’ve heard of more retal bounces recently than a month ago.

skigglez should the game be designed so that every attack from a higher kingdom result in the defender being able to get back what they lost? There seems to be an expectation that every time someone bottom feeds you that you should be entitled to get back what you lost - can't think of any other game where that's the case.

Inherently it’s not. Never has been. Hence the rise of the pre. Weakens the bigger kingdom so the little guy could retal the big guy.

skigglez if CLI goes away, is it healthy for the game to be designed for the attacking kingdom to lose double the castles/land that they took in the attack? Wouldn't that encourage more people to farm or to only hit targets at the very low end of their bottom feeding range?

Counter question, is it healthy for people to be able to attack with 0 risk of retal? You knew I’d have no chance. And it’s not always double. We’re far enough in that there are 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 castle options. More options and far more complex than when everyone was a 1 castle hit.

This is different from current state how?

skigglez is the castle passing pre/re any more interesting than what CLI offers? I have seen tons of action in the KHOF all round after CLI was implemented, it seems like most of the negative comments stem from it being boring or it encourages bottom feeding. People have lives and aren't able to check their kingdom every hour, so creating too much action in the game will probably be a deterrent for a lot of players.

We all came back to a game with no CLI. I think it was Vesuvan who pointed it out, CLI makes it safe for you to make 1 attack a day and then wait.

skigglez fairness of CLI and/or bottom feeding only seems to get brought up when someone is on the receiving end of an attack, I haven't seen too many posts from those winning the attack claiming unfairness

I would not expect those benefiting the most to bring it up as an issue.

Vesuvan

trupheus skigglez

I would like to point out that I actually did bring up the unfairness I saw in CLI as the winning attacker! I spent over 2 weeks in perpetual CLI testing a theory: if I only hit a target who was almost exactly at the 70% threshold, with just the right amount of troops to win (found a pretty accurate way to calculate this), that I would also successfully defend leaving the original defender essentially helpless. I only failed to defend once while doing this (credit to Adin for finding me through the fog)….all I could think of after 2 weeks of this was “wow, CLI is super unfair to the defending kingdom!” But I play within the parameters of the game, so if that’s how Thane and Keeper want Thardferr to be now, then that’s how I’ll play.

Iceman

I am not sure I agree with your comments. T-4 was at the top for the first half of the round, with CLI. They fell. The forums now are nothing but complaints about how the game is unplayable and how all the mechanics are broken. Is there a chance maybe the group on top is just better and more organized? I agree Elfs need work, but CLI or bottom feed had nothing to do with you loosing that attack. My army would of easily zeroed you and I'm 200k ks smaller than you.

K-19 was never at the top or a threat to take over the top of KHOF.

trupheus

Iceman I am not sure I agree with your comments. T-4 was at the top for the first half of the round, with CLI. They fell. The forums now are nothing but complaints about how the game is unplayable and how all the mechanics are broken. Is there a chance maybe the group on top is just better and more organized? I agree Elfs need work, but CLI or bottom feed had nothing to do with you loosing that attack. My army would of easily zeroed you and I'm 200k ks smaller than you.

K-19 was never at the top or a threat to take over the top of KHOF.

If you’re packing 100k+ units to throw around and leave a large force home then yeah you could have.

Early through mid round changes are expected as the growth rate is crazy. What we’re missing is the chance to even overthrow the top. It’s late in the round. Some folks are craaaaaazy powerful with big armies. The argument is not that an elf army shouldn’t haven’t gotten absolutely taken to the wood shed. It should have. But any smaller kingdom has 0 hope in the current state at this point.

skigglez

trupheus could those retal bounces be due to strategic choices? Why is the assumption that it’s some game mechanic causing them? Attackers adapt when the defenders use the same strategy for a month straight.

Iceman

trupheus

I’ve heard of more retal bounces recently than a month ago.

I hit Whitebush 5 consecutive times testing and trying to figure out how defend a retal. How is that a game problem that we adapted and made changes. Maybe the groups complaining should be doing the same thing.

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