CLI

Thecatman

I think overall CLI has been good for the round. If you look at how the round started if CLI didnt exist that 4 prov alliance would have dominated but with CLI my group (around 10 players) were able to compete all round. I like how CLI has made individual kingdom strength/management matter more than how many people you have in your group. I agree with saad though, defending needs to be looked at. Right now you are better off just sitting there with QR on and losing when you get hit, very little incentive to try to defend.

trupheus

Thecatman I like how CLI has made individual kingdom strength/management matter more than how many people you have in your group

I’ll pick out one seemingly random sentence out of the plethora of comments. Your group was very coordinated in attacking. If one person bounced there was a second person to follow the bounce and the person that bounced was put in protection. That’s team coordination. That very thing got most of you to where you are. Not hating on it at all just saying I’ve seen it in action. It’s coordinated and not easy to do and proof Thardferr is a team game. Your group playing across multiple provinces enabled you to circumvent the no attacking inside your province rule that was put in place while still getting the benefit of the racial bonuses. You guys cracked the code first to what the new meta will be. I foresee more of the same next round pending other changes.

The only other group with that level of coordination was shunned (~~banned~~) and the cause of the no inside province attacking rule to be put in place.

skigglez

Lord Thane Can you clarify which changes those were for Undead? If I recall correctly, these were the things I mentioned a few weeks back:

Racial tech doesn't do enough - either give more range or completely change
Gold upkeep is a bit high, but if market doesn't change it's not the end of the world. Wizards being 7g upkeep makes it almost impossible to effectively run magic
Caragous is crazy expensive and mounted, giving Undead 3 mounted units. Not sure changing the caragous does anything positive for the race, even a cheaper version i don't think is viable given how the scaling works (see Haybol's BRs where he's running a similar number of caragous as other units and losing all of them every attack).

I will say that I don't think Undead is in a bad place, so I would caution about going too far on any changes. With how few people have played it, maybe it needs another round of data before going too hard.

KingLear

skigglez either at top or in bottom rank. You're still crying out loud.

King Haybol

skigglez Naahhh! Undead is really balance right now. I hope no more tweaks and see you being undead again in the next round. 🫡🫡🫡

jerseyj282

I'm playing undead this round - i'm an old time player. I think Undead is competitive for the most part. agree with Skigglez suggestions for some minor tweaks. Wizard cost should maybe be 6 instead of 7. Racial tech should be a little juicier. Abom Caragous are mostly useless in terms of cost so may need an overhaul, but that's a problem for Elves too. I think people are underrating the benefit of not having to run much farms, or being able to sell the extra food for gold.

Idea for the CLI tech - maybe rename it as divine protection and include buffs to defensive protection also as you improve it? Would have to tweak / differentiate the hour #s a bit probably.

skigglez

Lord Thane couple of other thoughts:

Castle chancification must scale throughout the game. The 20 castle jump thing has caused a ton of stagnation, there is no incentive for someone with 20 castles to attack someone with 19 - you just lose an extra castle if they successfully retal.
Race change should be something that exists, it's better for someone to change race than lose the player completely. But as you said, a massive penalty should exist to prevent abuse mid to late round. 1/2 tech time alone would be enough in my opinion.
Send aid being elf only outside of province: what if someone is a human and wants to be a caster? Seems kind of arbitrary to pigeon hole that caster role to elf only. And it doesn't solve the multi situation - all multis would just go elf to be able to send aid.

Vesuvan

At the risk of ruining the good thing I have going, here are my thoughts…CLI with the 70% rule and Transport breaks the game in favor of the bigger kingdom. If I chose a target that is just within 70% and attack with just enough to win and defend a retal then I get land and castle(s), 24 hours to retrain and build which definitely allows me to outpace my enemy who only gets 15-20 hours, and then my army is home in 18 ensuring I have at least 6 hours before I’m OOP again to find a new target within 70% to repeat the process. Even better, if my enemy retrains fast enough then they will be back in my range by hour 15-20 when they are OOP and I can repeat the process knowing they will be open to attack! Granted this requires the kingdom I attacked to retal and lose, or simply not retal…but as long as one of those 2 things happens, then I literally never leave pro, and always have a high chance of winning my attacks. It works great, but also feels wrong….

FriendsInSpace

Vesuvan Counter point, as long as CLI timing remains the same as retal rights then the toxic pre/re situations of the past can't exist, barring failed attacks where a critical misstep is made.

Without the ability to prevent pre/re on every attack, you encourage multis (Haybol) to exist even more. And then we go back to square one, how to deal with all the multis (Beast) in the game.

Is CLI the right answer? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. It definitely favors the attacking kingdom that's for sure. Perhaps extending land/castle loss protection to 24 hours would help balance it out, as when you drop out of the winning streak it can be a long, slow climb back up, as I have and i'm sure your province has encountered. But the thing is, Thardferr has always favored the attacking kingdoms.

Also it results in funny situations where blunders are made trying to get CLI, and you get just rekt in the process.

Rennoc

Vesuvan

skigglez losing a castle always used to be 21 or 18… there was a bunch of different protections. 21, 18, 15, 9 and 3?… something like that

skigglez

More protection for losing definitely makes sense, but I think the attacker should get rewarded for taking the initiative and get longer protection. Baseline protection of 20 hours for losing a castle/land seems reasonable to me, so that if you fail an attack you at least get your troops back home with transport before you're out of protection again.

skigglez

KingLear huh? That’s what you got out of my post? You ok dude? If you actually read my post I was asking for extra protection for losing castles/land. You care to add something useful to the thread?

skigglez

trupheus that’s exactly why some kind of province boost for number of castles would do well, and encourage people to play in a province together. We split across provinces initially because we wanted to play different races and wanted to see what the racial province bonuses were. We normally wouldn’t pass castles between each other, but after seeing it done against us countless times we also adopted that approach this round.

FriendsInSpace

trupheus One thing to keep in mind though is for the past couple of weeks our biggest guys were unable to do anything to help out (other than resources) our smaller guys because of the ks differences. There are about 10 us, but only 4ish can act as a group at any given time because of the disparity in size.

trupheus

skigglez we're back to the pre/re castle pass circle jerk that the larger group is guaranteed to win

skigglez We normally wouldn’t pass castles between each other, but after seeing it done against us countless times we also adopted that approach this round

Which one is it man? You said it yourself your group adopted it this round. But I thought CLI prevented castle passing? It prevents the pre and the re but it does nothing to prevent a failed attack by someone larger from killing most of any army for another kingdom to swoop in and collect a castle with minimal losses. Sounds a lot like a pre to me.

Your group of 10 has stuck together for basically the entire round. You’ve coordinated throughout and done it well. Your winning tactics are the very thing you say you’re against and CLI prevents… but it doesn’t.

AdinTheDark

FriendsInSpace
I was BFed twice by Skiggles and the second him army killing me for someone to follow. You guys have things to do. The boredom is mostly self imposed

skigglez

AdinTheDark to be fair you messaged me to do it again after the first time, so I did. It was a one-off experiment, and not something that is viable to keep doing for the rest of the round

AdinTheDark

skigglez

Well I did say let me know if you’re going to do it again. Not do it again. Lol

68Magnum

skigglez lol priceless 😂

skigglez

AdinTheDark miscommunication on my end, my bad. We got there in the end, would have felt bad if you were on QR

skigglez

King Haybol yeah because if the great Haybol can't figure it out, nobody can?

Rennoc

Lord Thane I’ll admit when I’m wrong it adds another wrinkle to the game.

The only change I might suggest but I’m not sure I’m all in myself is 3 ticks of defender pro from retals (hopefully reduce defend on QR/intra retal) and/or bring back 30 tick retals.

Taking away the pre/re does hurt the teamwork that we all love

skigglez

Rennoc CLI needs to cover the entire retal length or we're back to the pre/re castle pass circle jerk that the larger group is guaranteed to win. It's not teamwork, it's literally whoever has the bigger alliance wins. Look at how quickly the pinos crumbled when CLI came in - the only way they could be competitive was due to numbers.

xiAo-Shin Star

CLI is good somehow it ease the pre/re situation. However, in the defender's side, it's too bad for them not to be able to take the retal and then got hit again after 15 ticks. I don't how you calculate things here, why the heck the defender only has less protection than the attacker. If CLI still up, this needs some adjustment or have the defender with same protection as the attacker. Attacker gets 24hrs CLI Prot, the defender should also have 24hrs prot.