Vacation Mode

FriendsInSpace

AdinTheDark There is a key difference between using vacation mode like this and timing protection, which has everything to do with coordination of allies. You can't control the timing of protection to near the degree you can vacation mode.

Take this for example: I sit in vacay mode with a full military, and wait for my allies to catch up in military before 3 of them decide to suicide on an enemy. Then I break the vacation mode and send in the 4th attack to break the enemy if the 3rd didn't do it. If the 3rd does break, then I sit in vacation mode for the next time, or break it to tap the same enemy when they are OOP.

Just seems a tad open to abuse to me is all.

As to the castle passing off topic comments, we are all doing it, so no need to try and claim superiority over anyone else. I've watched at least 2/3 of the top 20 pass to eachother this past week just to hide in pro. To not do it right now would be just silly... Unless you are Cyber and Truph with that epic fail earlier today.

@Lord Thane I might have an idea that could make it less appealing to castle pass, if that's something you wanted to try and do.

AdinTheDark

FriendsInSpace

If it’s as coordinated as than then it wouldn’t matter what restriction you put on it. You just plan for that wait period to end and do the attacks then.

Enphetamy

FriendsInSpace so....was cli implemented to combat castle passing? Im a bit confused.

DougEfresh

skigglez So the exact same thing you guys did. Just more kingdoms doing it against you. Ahhhhh the good old memories of everyone coming after T4.... But of course it's less cool when it happens to you.

Irony

skigglez

DougEfresh we aren’t complaining about it though, so not sure where the irony is coming from. All I pointed out was that your group’s complaint was that CLI favors the large kingdoms, but the past few days those same people are using CLI to their advantage as the smaller kingdoms. Disproved their own complaints in not even a week, hilarious

FriendsInSpace

Enphetamy CLI was implemented to stop pre-re.

Castle passing has never really been addressed, if anything CLI makes it worse because it gives double pro (both attack and defensive sides)

AdinTheDark In some cases yes you're right, however it would be a lot harder to time. And in my previous example, you don't really get the option to not exit if the 3rd attack wins.

skigglez

Enphetamy it was implemented to prevent pre/re. Castle passing can’t be prevented, if people want to hit their allies for protection or when they fail hits there’s nothing you can implement to prevent that

DougEfresh

skigglez CLI favours the castle passers. which is in no way more toxic than working with your group to pre retal

skigglez

DougEfresh i don’t think castle passing is a long term sustainable strategy with CLI. Sure it can be used to help someone hide short term, but eventually if you want to grow you have to make hits outside of the alliance. We used it to help our 2 members recover from the EQ fiascos, but very rarely outside of that.

Enphetamy

skigglez When there's a mechanism that can allow the entirety of Thardferr to be in protection, somethings fucked. It shouldn't be okay to chain an entire bloc of players into protection, intentionally or otherwise. An attack should break protection, period. Protection status should be at best, zero sum. Being able to "create" protection by activating CLI while you're in protection is ass.

I just went through about 24 attack attempts (skipping the 2 prov mates and 3 allies), before I got through on someone 20% bigger than me. This is obviously a snapshot in time, but it is by no means unique or anomalous.

The most fun I've had this round were the two times I was not in CLI rotation. Getting pre-re was a better experience than the 7 days I spent in perpetual protection. I dont know how you guys at the top play this game.

skigglez

Enphetamy there’s threads on why CLI was introduced, the majority voted in favour of it over the pre/re stuff. Attacking does break protection, but if you gain a castle and they aren’t less than 70% your size you gain protection. The experience at the top isn’t impacted by CLI at all, there’s nobody to get CLI from. If you didn’t like being in protection there was the option to not play with it, shouldn’t have got the techs.

Enphetamy

skigglez I suppose I'd have known what the experience would be like before I got the tech. You're so smart lol.

skigglez

Enphetamy i think the situation of having no targets is actually pretty unique. Haven’t had that issue at all this round, and neither has anyone else in my group. Cut the number of alliances and that problem goes away

Vesuvan

Enphetamy The alternative is forcing someone to be OOP for a set amount of time which puts them at a huge disadvantage since everyone watching the KHOF will know exactly when you leave vacation mode…unless you just don’t do anything with your KD for an extra 12 hours while clenching your sphincter hoping not to get hit…

FriendsInSpace

Every single thread about changes always has to degrade into an argument about CLI.

If you want to argue about it, make your own damn posts and stop sidetracking shit.

Vesuvan he alternative is forcing someone to be OOP for a set amount of time which puts them at a huge disadvantage since everyone watching the KHOF will know exactly when you leave

That's why I'm saying put a delay on when you hit the "leave vacay mode" button or whatever it's called, and the actual act of leaving vacation mode. That way you're not leaving yourself open like a sitting duck, but you can't just cancel leaving it on a whim if your buddies suicides make it through.

Vesuvan

FriendsInSpace This could work too

trupheus

@skigglez There was a period of time during which your alliance was never OOP to be hit from the outside. Not just during EQ rebuilds. If someone failed, there was a follow, and someone put the fail in prot. Eventually people grow to the point it takes multiple hits to break any one of you and now you roll the dice on being able to take all retals. It's a good recipe to come out on top. The second best one of the round, first being the group that passed to 1 person straight OOP but never got to finish the recipe.

There have been many changes this round. CLI announced mid initial protection, race changes, province changes, tech additions with CLI and Thane's food etiquette, tech overhauls with SB/LA/HA, EQ castration (MY BABY), strategy bugs, and more I'm probably forgetting that have changed the game. You guys adjusted quickly and while you didn't start on top you ended up there.

Just think, had EQ not been nerfed, we'd have magic wars where every military focused kingdom would fear the EQ. Elves everywhere would have risen to the top because hitting them would cost you your kingdom. Sure, you win the first hit, but after they EQ you to nothing and then retal... who wants to dance next? It was the most overpowered thing in the game once solved.

Had everyone been locked into the race they started with (please no more race changes in future rounds), the 3s would still be 3/13s and stuck with nerfed Dwarves and everyone's favorite punching bag Elves. K4 would still be T4, really terrible timing moving from a race that got buffed to a race that got the hardest nerf. The entire round would be different right now. One thing wouldn't change, Haybol would still be crying whatever race he chose is weak. Sorry bud, you're not elf, it's not the race.

Roller coaster of a round. I think we'd all like a stable playing field next round. All changes announced before and unless it's something ridiculously broken... give us stability.

skigglez

trupheus

trupheus There was a period of time during which your alliance was never OOP to be hit from the outside. Not just during EQ rebuilds.

This was largely due to the fact that we built our kingdoms for war. Many of the people we were fighting were running schools/wizards, so they didn't have the same ability to attack regularly. Us failing hits was the exception and not the rule, so I don't think the few passes we did had much of an impact on us rising to the top. Again, everyone else was doing the exact same thing, so I'm not sure how that gave us any kind of edge. All of the other alliances were also spread across multiple provinces, so the 3/13's being in a couple different ones also didn't give us any kind of special advantage.

EQ had to be nerfed - the ability for someone half your KS to destroy all of your buildings in a single tick was obviously unbalanced. Especially when they could do it once a day. If you did that to someone while they were away from their kingdom for a few hours they would have literally no military left to take any retals.

trupheus One thing wouldn't change, Haybol would still be crying whatever race he chose is weak. Sorry bud, you're not elf, it's not the race.

Finally something we can agree on. I would toss Shin Star in that statement as well.

Enphetamy

skigglez I was writing a response, and talked myself into realizing CLI is not the problem, per se, but the end result it might enable. Runaway kingdoms are too difficult to take down (this is especially true when castle passing is invovled).

I apologize for wasting your time on the CLI convo; not sure why I didnt reason this out sooner.

Having said that, is there a reasonable strategy to knock down a kd that has ran away? Hard enough to bring down one giant, its next to impossible to do it against a group if they've gotten too far ahead (was this an issue with OG?)

trupheus

skigglez Finally something we can agree on. I would toss Shin Star in that statement as well.

We've agreed on a few things this round and it scares me every time.

CLI, I just don't like what it does. You're taking 2 pieces off the board for 1 hit in most attacks. There's a whole other thread for that though and I'm trying not to mingle thoughts across them.

@FriendsInSpace what's the difference between exiting vacation mode at will after 3 days and coordinating with others to always be in protection and making a hit when the time comes?

skigglez

Enphetamy Yeah CLI offers nothing to the large kingdoms - even against a group of suiciders we can't get protection from retaling any of them. I don't know what you can do to take down larger kingdoms outside of what people are currently trying. You have to coordinate multiple attacks to try and take them down. I don't think there's anything rules wise that you could implement to target larger kingdoms, and I'm not sure if that would even make sense to do. The whole point of the game is to grow as big as you can within the round - implementing measures to punish people that outgrow everyone else seems wrong to me. OG Thard would have been the exact same scenario - it's tough to take down runaway kingdoms, so it's best to try and prevent them from running away in the first place.

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