New racial spells for Dwarfs and Gnomes

skigglez

DougEfresh You can use that logic for every weakness a race has though - Orc has weak range, should they get the same range as a gnome? Not all races get free access to GB - they have to go through all of the spell techs to get it, plus invest land for schools and upkeep for wizards. Those buildings the Dwarf and Gnome can use for their own production and military strength. I never had GB last round and had no issues with resources at any point in the round. Would it have been nice to have it? Sure - but it wasn't something that was absolutely necessary.

FriendsInSpace

DougEfresh

Why? Take the 1:1 schools that they are using to sustain GB and put them into mills/mines/farms. Problem solved. And save the upkeep on the 16:1 wiz per land minimum required to cast it at 1:1 schools.

Thats why being able to cast any spells via MP's or any other method than wiz is bad balance. The downside to running magic and getting the benefits, is wiz and schools are a massive drain on the kingdom. And those that do get forced into selling MP's to try and buff their gold, but it doesn't work out in their favor ever. Especially when you have fellas like truph last round artificially keeping the price down,

Make GB castable on other kingdoms, sure. But then you need to convince some poor sap to play elf/human with wiz and pay them for the effort.

If GB is so broken, then the top should always be elves/humans. Last round I believe the top 20 had 2 elves and 3? humans?

skigglez

FriendsInSpace with the market everyone basically had infinite resources by the end of the round. If you're a Dwarf just run more mines and sell iron to boost your economy. The solution isn't implement a bunch of new shit so that all races end up being exactly the same. If that's the direction the game is headed it's doomed

FriendsInSpace

TheKeeper If you aren't running energy gathering they dont, but then all it takes is 2.5 slingers to take out every mage. Less if the orc has sling tech.

And slingers train way faster for less cost than a mage.

trupheus

skigglez The solution isn't implement a bunch of new shit so that all races end up being exactly the same. If that's the direction the game is headed it's doomed

skigglez

trupheus Not trying to be negative with all my comments, but there needs to be differences between the races. Some will be able to more effectively use magic, others have stronger military. We can't use last round as the gauge for anything because of how messed up it was with all of the changes, and people being able to use MP for GB. Should at least see what a full round looks like with it being wizard only. Outside of elves, I bet there wouldn't even be that many people converting to wizards late game to keep GB up on themselves - it wouldn't just be Dwarf and Gnome that it wouldn't be feasible to run it on. I could see Orc and Undead also struggling to fit the schools/wizards in.

FriendsInSpace

skigglez Hell, most of the humans that were running wiz stopped later on too.

trupheus

skigglez

100% agreeing with you. But it’s been a trend for a while, throw in new features and not worry about bigger issues.

KS balancing, big issue.
The EQ thing you guys found is kind of an offshoot of something I posted to GitHub a few months back that it was too easy to TS other kingdoms. Kind of assuming they’re similar systems in a “score” being needed to successfully cast and then that also determines the effectiveness of the spell, with some randomness thrown in.

I think casting beneficial spells is just too hard which makes it really inefficient to self cast.

Balancing doesn’t have to mean everything is the same. Races should have advantages paired with disadvantages. Racial advantage in military now means completely obliterating someone’s army.

skigglez

FriendsInSpace Yeah they all realized how big of a disadvantage it was to carry schools and wizards when fighting a group that was pure military. There is a big cost to having that much of your kingdom dedicated to extra resources. You can set your kingdom up to be mostly self sufficient without needing GB. Especially if you play with other people, you can help each other out with resources when someone is in a pinch. Don't think changes to the game need to be made to make it easier for everyone to get GB.

skigglez

trupheus yeah the TS thing still hasn't been addressed. Toward the end of the round we were still getting TS'd by kingdoms 1/4 of our size. Hopefully that's part of the spell changes coming for next round.

Blahblah

skigglez which told everybody at that time, that spells success and failure rates were bullshit and that it wasn't working properly.

skigglez

Blahblah it hasn't been working properly for a very long time. They fixed the upper limit for casting EQ, but not other spells. Haybol's multi Beast was bombing TS's the entire round on kingdoms 2x his KS. Multiple complaints were made by several different people, but nothing was done. It's a massive problem and will just encourage others to make their own multis to do the same. If you can get free TS all round without having to run any schools/wizards, why wouldn't you?

Blahblah

skigglez and I was one of those people talking about it, because I was the one who was receiving it from him and commerce and the other small kingdoms last round. And I received it several times twice an hour. Like we've said, casting is broken, but yet we continue to abuse it. And then we continue to abuse the point that we've already pointed out, why? If they're so into testing, move on to the next test, the flaw has been found and pointed out.

skigglez

Blahblah so casters are supposed to not cast for a round because some people think they are abusing something? That's crazy - nobody should use the protection hammers because I think it's abuse. If the devs thought it was abusive they would implement coding to address it. It's a mini joke round anyways, so it's better it happens now and they fix it before the next round. But if they don't fix it, expect people to do it next round.

trupheus

Blahblah

trupheus haha

TheKeeper

trupheus I Agree lol

KingLear

TheKeeper how about for orcs? Any good upgrade for orcs?

trupheus

KingLear

I don't know that they need them; they got buffed pretty good after the tech changes last round. just gotta be smart about who you hit and you'll be alright.

TheKeeper

KingLear Not at this moment, but the game keeps evolving

Xliest

TheKeeper why are we making big changes that unbalance the game further, rather than fix balance then make small changes that improve races that are shown to be weak or nerf strong races incrementally… introducing new ways to cast spells with military units is silly, how’s a catapult going to yet army home from battle with out splattering gnomes all over the pavement. Plus it’s not like these war machines can hurl mF’s very far… you only gain maybe 3-400 meters per cat maybe if you cast it you can reduce the amount of time they are away but only by like 2 hours each cast… and you risk killing a lot of troops and losing cats.

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