Land Gained on Attacks

skigglez

Lord Thane would 10% be enough in that case, or bump it up to 25%? Gotta be significant if it’s a blessing from the gods

FriendsInSpace

skigglez

I would say if you are removing CR benefits from GB, then 25% buff to production from 10% would be a fair compromise?

FriendsInSpace

Lord Thane

You thinking having land be what sets the minimum crime rate, and using castle/land ratio as a modifier on top of that? It could work nicely, though I think we would want to have it more weighed towards castle/land ratio, or have max crime rate capped at like 40% or something so as to prevent a death spiral.

Lord Thane Idk if the base rate needs to be at .5 specifically. Would everyone then min-max to have 1:10 ratio to keep low crime?

The thing is, you get limited by the amount of castles you can build in a specific time frame, so you would then have a choice to either run a smaller more efficient kingdom CR wise, or try to just overpower CR with raw numbers...to a point.

Lord Thane Maybe the tech needs tweaked to fit this model fairly, we don't want to get an unfair advantage to big kingdoms. If the tech didn't cap and only reduced by -50% as trupheus suggested then it might make more sense.

Could even break apart the tech to have different levels, say improved law 1 reduces effects of crime rate by 10%, 2 by 20%...etc. Obviously would need to split apart the TP cost to them as well.

I think this all adds a nice element of strategic building/exploring to the mix, and I think coupled with nolios idea of 10% land loss/hit could really make castle passing less appealing to larger players, as that could start ruining castle/land ratios.

These comments brought to you by me before my first coffee, so nothing has really been thought through.

Enphetamy

FriendsInSpace
That'd be quite a buff to GB. As I think would be appropriate. TP needed to get to it (and the wizards required to utilize it), and the things you arent getting, would feel more balanced at 25%.

FriendsInSpace

Enphetamy Well right now GB is a very powerful spell, with the caveat being you are already a large kingdom. The 10% buff and CR negation doesn't help smaller kingdoms nearly as much as it helps the large kingdoms, as the main thing is getting rid of the effects of CR.

Psidon

Since I've started playing this game from round 1 and throughout the beginning rounds (then a very long hiatus) and until I just came back now. I've always been an explorer and turtler. I enjoy just building things and collecting resources and building an army that just sit there and get fat...I've had my province win one round through alliances and playing safe...

There are other players like me in this crazy game, so I'm wondering if there's room for explorers in this game or is it only PVP killed or be killed and round and round we go? And if there isn't any room for players like me and it is only killed or be killed... then surely, we can find ways to fix the strategies and mechanics and exploitations that are being used... The spirit of the game has not been played imo.

There is so much good discussions going on around here and I hope we continue to keep making this game better and continue to make it fun for all types of players. This game can't survive with just a handful of people. It needs to bring in more and more players until we have a healthy and large community.

That should be the focus atm alongside fixing the exploits used.

Maybe add alliances, declarations of wars, etc. Just throwing ideas against the wall...

Thank you.

Lord Thane

Psidon I would say no, there isn't room for that style of play. The reason is because there aren't enough players for you to blend in with the herd. Eventually some alliance asshats will target you, they'll suicide to break your army, then they'll attack you every day thereafter until you're out of ks range. There's no care for fairness or friendliness, they won't think about how much it sucks to get hit every day and never be able to grow, they'll just keep attacking until you quit.

That's been happening over and over and over, both rounds, this round even more I think as people are getting their player-killer strats optimized.

Cora

Psidon I agree with this 100%. This is completely how the game used to be and how it should continue to strive to be. That’s the spirit that brought so many people back.

Unfortunately, @Lord Thane is correct that there’s too many players against this style of gameplay and they almost force you to play the way they play. They are the reason there have been so many changes made. I will continue to be an advocate for the casual players. There needs to be a balance.

FriendsInSpace

Cora

Cora Unfortunately, @Lord Thane is correct that there’s too many players against this style of gameplay and they almost force you to play the way they play.

Unfortunately you have a bit of a potato, potAto situation here. There is a group of players (of which I believe I am included) playing the way they want to, which has the effect of really being hard on the more casual players due to the smaller player base. To shoehorn them into a more casual gameplay style would indeed just have the opposite effect of what is happening now, and having spent some time in the top 5 just farming waiting for something to happen, if that was the whole round I would probably stop playing out of boredom. I don't know how Cyber and Smith do it, they have way more patience than me. To each their own though!

I will say though that there are a fair few of us really advocating for overall balance. The closer we can get to it, the more fun it would be for everyone involved as the more casual players won't get beaten down as hard, and the more aggressive players should, in theory, have more targets/be targeted by more people and make the game overall more exciting for them as well.

Down with boring communism!

Psidon

Especially when trying to get my wife to stay active..... :S

Psidon

what if there was a way to declare war on players/provinces. Those that engage in wars receive much greater rewards. Im just spit balling.... : )

give more bonuses to players that engage in pvp style and just 0 for those that take the slow and steady approach..

FriendsInSpace

Psidon That idea has been thrown around a bit, and I like it personally, though I think working on the other balance changes we are sorting out right now (Unit/tech KS, balancing races, figuring out a more fair spoils of battle system) are the groundwork that needs to be laid first.

That idea also comes with the issue of how do you convince people to group up in the same province (and give up the ability to castle pass). It definitely has been talked about though! I like to keep in mind that this is a passion project for Keeper and Thane, not their full time jobs, so changes may take a bit of time.

Lord Thane

FriendsInSpace even harder than finding dev time, is getting everyone to agree on a change. That alone is what stalls out most ideas.

Take the recent castle chance / 10% land loss convos. Polling results say most ppl like 1 idea best BUT they want the idea to be perfect first. Few people talk about it a bit, few brainstorm, nobody agrees on anything - the idea is functionally dead now.

But, I don't think ideas are what we really need. We need more players to spread out the battles, if there's more targets then people won't be getting gangbanged as often, the stress gets spread out. I think for that to happen will take the players to actually go out and push the marketing themselves. Currently I think the drip of old players finding us is about equal with the ones getting fed up and quitting.

Psidon

kingdoms during war time would have everything escalate. War time production, troops, armory, etc etc. Add more and more incentives... The community is so small tho. Its hard to implement anything drastic atm. I think maybe just start from the ground floor and work on the foundation of this game and go from there.

FriendsInSpace

Lord Thane

Lord Thane Take the recent castle chance / 10% land loss convos. Polling results say most ppl like 1 idea best BUT they want the idea to be perfect first. Few people talk about it a bit, few brainstorm, nobody agrees on anything - the idea is functionally dead now.

I don't know if I agree with that interpretation of the results. Exactly 0 people voted for keeping it the way it is, so I would say most people want a change, they just can't necessarily agree on what exactly would be best.

There's an old saying, Perfect is the worst enemy of good enough. The poll shows you might not be able to please absolutely everyone by picking one change or another, but nobody wants it to stay the same.

skigglez

Unfortunate part of having a small player base. Those kingdoms who prefer to casually farm will be out of protection more often than others, so they naturally become a target. If they’re in range people will attack them - the alternative is to be a sitting duck yourself. One way to alleviate that might be on the strategies side, having some kind of explorer’s strategy where you lose less while being attacked but don’t get retal rights. I think expanded strategies solves a lot of balance issues too

Psidon

skigglez explorer mode or war mode etc. thats why i like the idea of declaring war between provinces etc. those engaged in wars recieve much more rewards and their kingdoms are boosted for all production, armory, military.. War time.

Lord Thane

FriendsInSpace eh, this is kinda the way we've been doing things for a while now. It's just nice when we can get a big pack of players to agree on something so we have someone else to point the finger at when ppl start complaining lol

I like my idea for crime tho. Nerfing GB and tech would be fine for me. Don't really see any other viable alternatives. But, it would be impossible to implement this round since it would dump on everyone in the top 30 super hard. Maybe something to let fester and pick the discussion back up when we get closer to next round... Unless this is something ppl really wanna see now, but I don't think they do?

FriendsInSpace

Lord Thane I can't speak for everybody, but dump it on me lol.

Nolio

The vast majority of the votes said yes make the losing land of 10%. That part is already agreed upon. The other part of how to make castles better is what people aren't sure about. So don't make any changes on that. And blame me for the change when people complain since I posted it, and then when they see that it is objectively better just say you're welcome

Lord Thane

Nolio we can't make castles useless and have everyone running 1:45 as a default because running any lower castle ratio would just be a waste. The idea needs to reconcile castle value in a way that makes sense before it can proceed, which I think my crime idea does. If we rammed it through that's probably the combo that would have to happen, until/unless someone comes up with something better.

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