Land Gained on Attacks

FriendsInSpace

Lord Thane With the current system, you're correct to a point. Training Unit 1s using castles is more land efficient like you had mentioned, compared to building ATCs, but otherwise there really isn't any benefit.

That being said, crime rate or no crime rate, if I could free up 0.55 buildings per land to convert to economy buildings without fear of getting double smoked at 20, then I definitely would. For gnomes it's basically a must too.

Also, at 25 CR with improved law it doesn't really matter anymore.

That being said, changing the CR calc to what you had suggested would make more castles way more desirable, and I think definitely should be added. But I still believe even without it, the 19/29 hump becomes a lot less scary at a 10% loss anyways.

trupheus

The 19/29 hump is gone with fixed land losses. There’s minimal reason to staying at 19 instead of going forward. Doesn’t matter 19 or 20 you’re losing the same amount of land.

Since the increased training isn’t enough for folks. Changing CR to the system @Lord Thane suggested is a heck of a reason to keep pushing castles. Get killed by crime rate if your land per castle ratio gets too high.

Crime rate negation by GB would need to be tweaked aka removed. 25% buff instead of 10% was thrown out there. That sounds solid. That’s like a 15 castle kingdom casting GB. Could even be a little higher.

Lord Thane

trupheus I just feel like castles have always been such a key component to Thardferr's core, got to have something that keeps them at the forefront of importance somehow.

Also, now I'm kinda worried my crime idea would make ATC obsolete. Would it do that? Because everyone would be building masses of castles? Maybe we actually need to reduce their unit production to protect ATC value. Then if we do that, what could we do to further make castles highly important (other than just crime fighters)? I don't like cheaping out with resource buffs, that seems a lazy way of buffing.

trupheus

Lord Thane

I highly doubt it’s going to make ATC obsolete. Gnome is probably the only race that gets away with 0 ATC because catapults and Balista are so ridiculously expensive. Every other race still needs ATC to bump up that train rate or have it take eons to rebuild.

skigglez

Lord Thane tiered castle bonuses? 5 castles you get flat resources a tick, 10 castles armoury speed, 15 reduced food consumption, 20 gold consumption reduction, etc

Could also tie in castles to defensive power somehow? Maybe through techs? Have a whole tech tree tied into castles?

These could be horrible ideas, just spitballing

Lord Thane

skigglez I like the idea of a defense buff tied to castles. Castles reduce the fighting force, so traditionally they've actually sort of made you weaker on defense - but castles are a fortification, so maybe while they weaken the force by splitting them up they could also give those forces a buff. Maybe .5% defensive buff per castle, so 10 castles get 5% defense boost, 20 castles get 10%. Functionally it would mean fewer troops die on defense and it's that much more difficult to achieve victory conditions.

With tons of castles being built, we'd have to add diminishing returns to prevent crazy 50% defense buffs at 100 castles, etc. maybe after 20 castles it goes down to .25 buff.

That'd be a nice little perk to castles, beyond just crime fighters. Maybe we can have them house 100-200 troops too.

trupheus

Lord Thane That'd be a nice little perk to castles, beyond just crime fighters. Maybe we can have them house 100-200 troops too.

Oh that's an idea. And a new tech line that is castle techs so that you can make your castle buffs stronger; resources, armory, troop space. Designate troops to fight from the castle that get increased attack/defense from those troops?

Lord Thane

trupheus we can just pretend the troops are designated, much easier to code in a simple defensive buff than build a special garrisoning system... Although that would be pretty cool to load them up. Sigh, well now I'm wanting to do it. So instead of having a generic troop housing buff, we could have a specific garrisoning section, donate/transfer a unit5 or unit6 to the garrison and they take part in defenses, don't take room in regular GH and can't be removed (permanent defensive units, fight till they die)... This could be a fun little addon.

FriendsInSpace

Lord Thane Castle guards for the win!

Lord Thane

FriendsInSpace then we can have castle tech that increases the housing space for the special garrison, and increase their attack power 🤩

skigglez

Tie in guard towers somehow to make them more useful based on number of castles?

Lord Thane

skigglez good idea, we could make GT increase the castle garrison!

We'll need to run some numbers that levels out the power of all these things. I was thinking we could set the castle garrison troops to have a real basic stat structure that's the same for all races, like 0 melee, 1 short, 2 long, 2 defense. Those wouldn't be affected by standard techs, just basic roughed in stats - make it simpler/reliable to code it in. I'm roughly thinking we shouldn't let this idea exceed a defensive power of more than like, 10% of a normal armies defensive powers, so it doesn't get the defenses too OP. If we assume ppl would be running 1:10 castles to get the lowest crime, 10 castles at 100 land would be a good basis for figuring out power levels - if we put the castles at 50 capacity and each GT at +5, someone running 1:1 GT would have strong long range attack absorbtion and 1k castle garrisoned troops giving +2000 LR attack, +1000 short, +2000 defense. Pretty formidable force, but not too OP - for comparison I'm at about that size and just in mounted archers I have 1500 of em at 4500 LR, 9000 melee, 15k defense (they're buffed with SB3 and LA3 and Bow). With this idea in place the defender wouldn't put a dent in my mounted archers, but they'd at least absorb half my LR attack to their castle garrison, saving some of their other troops to fight on.

Maybe loading the garrison should be easier, since a lot of ppl having difficulties with defense have problems just rebuilding their regular garrison - much less side loading trained troops to this new one... Maybe we should just load peasants into the castle garrison with some gp, and then they train themselves based on how many GT you have (castle trains 1 castle garrison per castle per tick, GT trains 10, etc). That further enhances GT value.

These are more toilet math numbers, so maybe need adjusting.

Psidon

gotta love bottom feeding.... this is what drives people away.

🙁

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