Make attacking first worth it again.

trupheus

I don’t think you have any clue what you’re talking about right now.

We managed to kill : 6 Knight 284 Infantry 200 Pikeman 17 Heavy Infantry 310 Archer 23 Mounted Archers

But we lost : 103 Dark Knight 500 Skeletal Legion 136 Wraith Pikeman 78 Abomination Caragous 205 Phantom Archer 44 Wraith Rider

The wood and iron cost between those killed troops is roughly the same. The gold cost of the human is HALF of the undead. Thats not even factoring in upkeep, where the undead is also much more because of lack of food upkeep. Do undead get twice the gold of human? No. Could I possibly supplement by selling food? Yes, but it’s never going to make up the difference.

Leo

trupheus

This is my post from whatsapp chat right after that exact BR posted. I know what i am talking about

Leo

Lord Thane

Mine are feedbacks from the perspective of someone not playing undead.
Compared to the initial design gold upkeeps of Undead units were lowered if i am not mistaken. That direction of improvement is making them stronger.
Food consumption thing is game breaking where food is a much more important than before.

AdinTheDark

Leo Compared to the initial design gold upkeeps of Undead units were lowered if i am not mistaken

Leo

Only one unit from 36 to 28 a tick…

Jets

Lord Thane it used to be from what I recall

Jets

Leo this is why people should make friends with orcs, not eat them

Leo

Jets

As an orc, best producer in game; right after initial protection ended and when you were dropped to 12 land or so with army out. What was it like foodwise?

AdinTheDark

The worst thing about attacking is all the empty land you get. Took two castles and 51 land in two attacks 34 of that land was empty. Trying to keep armory up and catch up buildings to grow fast enough to stay out of range of smaller kingdoms is extremely difficult. War is expensive, farming is slow. Both have drawbacks.

Leo

AdinTheDark

It is 23 btw 18/5 knight to 23/0 dark knight.

Leo

AdinTheDark

I already charted out Undead with Saad's cooperation to compare its balance with other races. Not writing these out of blue.
Iron consumption is less than human. Wood consumption is no problem.

If you didn't use your gold for shortened tech you would have around 1million+ extra gold now. That would be enough
to cover for you.

Ah about market.. Everyone has to run 1:1 market imho. Because of using market / land ratio in the calculation not doing so the drop is drastical.

AdinTheDark

Leo
I lied it was lowered more. Just got the full stats of the units lol

AdinTheDark

Leo
I haven’t started a tech since we came out of protection. It’s all gone to army.

Jets

Leo horrible. And I had irrigation. So I destroyed buildings to get my GH and Farms up so when the military returned I could house them. After that I would make sure I had a larger reserve as, I remember dropping 50-200k food while army was out

Leo

@trupheus

Dark Knight vs Knight: 106g more 3 iron less
Skeletal Legion vs Rock Thrower: 36g less 1 wood less 1 iron more
Wraith Pikemen vs Pikemen: 5g more 1 iron less and have +1 def
Abominaton Caragous vs Elven Caragous: 191g more 2 iron less 2 wood less with 4/3 base stats.
Phantom Archer vs Archer: 250g more 1 wood less
Wraith Rider vs Mounted Archer: 55g 1wood 1iron less and have cloaking.

Other than Phantom archer nothing is expensive.

trupheus

I’d like to take this random moment to say please do something about Elf Mage. I think they need nerfed hard. 1900 gold and 30 gold upkeep should be doubled for those ridiculous stats. /s LOL

Poor elves.

TheKeeper

you have to keep in mind that skeletal legion is designed to be cheap, it doesn't have ranged, only melee, it uses double the population of Militia (the most similar unit) it doesn't have the GH bonus of Gnomes, you need tons of units to be competitive, and you need more GH than other races, if you look at the growth of the race over time, technology doesn't benefit them that much so, And yes, it is very dependent on iron and gold.

And I haven't even mentioned his main strategy "Swarm of the Death" or his exclusive spell yet, but believe me, it's designed to be:

Really Weak Vs Orcs
-Weak Vs Dwarfs
Even Vs Humans
Strong Vs Elf
Demi God Vs Gnomes

The costs alone doesn't reflect the full picture at all, you must calculate it based on atk / def rather than single unit and check the costs over time to make a fair comparison, and see the deltas simulating technologies.

Oh! I almost forgot, to make more gold, Undeads needs more population, with more population more housing are required and... more food...

Also, I need to mention, Undeads have a penalty to casting magic, similar to orcs, but almost no magical defense

TheKeeper

I think in a couple weeks, I'll make a poll to see how we can improve the race, priorizing the ones that tried Undead.

There's still time to join the undead if you want, just let me know.

Leo

TheKeeper

Nah that is too easy to play 🙂

Just joking. At first glance gnomes seemed counter to Undead. But, you say it is designed to be Demi God vs Gnomes. Meaning Undead with Swarm of the Death strat or in general?

trupheus

Leo

Swarm negates long range damage to legion but increases damage done to other units. Anything with high defense and/or short range damage is going to be strong against legion.

Weak vs dwarf. Very weak vs orc. Weak vs human. Hard counter gnomes (unless they go militia/infantry heavy and run anti cav at which point RIP the 3 mounted units all the death in melee)

TheKeeper

Leo a combo of magic Vs strat.

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