Wizards to Defend

Nolio

Would it be possible to make wizards have like 1 defense and 1 range so that they help out on defense? Not let them join in attacks or anything, just for the sake of defense.

If it sounds broken let me know, but I do feel bad for casters who just get picked off when someone like a Dwarf decides they want some land and can burn the school to the ground.

skigglez

Nolio
Isn’t that the sacrifice they make running high wizards? In the past they could hide, but with CLI they now have to build military or become easy targets. Don’t see why casters should get the best of both worlds. The answer is build a more balanced kingdom.

Lord Thane

Theres an interesting idea to buff casters. Wizards will become combatants and face casualties in defenses I would imagine.

Nolio

Lord Thane Yes, I would hope so. But they already do when land get taken and they lose a proportionate amount to the land and schools they lost. So it seems to me like a fair trade

Nolio

skigglez I think that's a good point if they got the best of both worlds, but I don't believe they do.

I get that you think they should just play better and get an army. But elf armies suck, so they need a lot of army to viable, and if they do that, there's no point in being a caster. But mostly, some people don't want to do that. They want to be a caster because that's fun for them. I just want to help make that a viable play style.

Yes right now, that's the risk. If you want to be a caster and stay neutral, you're easily picked off and die to everyone who decides they need a quick land or castle grab. But if those wizards could help defend, in my opinion, all it would do is balance them as a unit. They are still a very weak race, but, if they have thousands of wizards, people might have to actually debate if they want to hit a caster.

It would give them no advantages on attacks, it would just help them not die.

Lord Thane

skigglez that's a valid point. In my head I was wondering, maybe no 1def/1off, but instead zero defense and 1 offense point (say they're hiding in the castle blasting off fireballs or something), with the downside of them taking casualties during the battle (win or lose)... Maybe could even be a setting to toggle off/on "send wizards on guard" or something. Maybe even make it a tech where they can be used defensively, then additional tech to give them a defense point "battle magic shield" . This could go along with the other techs we were talking about that give a faster recovery rate too - a whole magic buffing tech tree.

skigglez

Nolio
I think they would have to fundamentally change how magic works then. Having a guy full wizards being able to TS constantly for others with no repercussions is problematic if you make them be able to defend attacks with no military. If TS gave retal rights that would be more balanced and would probably work, and resting wizards provide no defence.

skigglez

Lord Thane
Those are good ideas

Nolio

skigglez

skigglez no repercussions

This part I don't agree with. There are still plenty of repercussions. With wizards able to defend a small amount, it just means that instead of having to only send 5% of my army, I might have to send 25%. They are still weak with this suggestion, just not the weakest.

And I absolutely agree that resting wizards would not be able to defend. They can either cast spells or be defensive units, not both!

Lord Thane I like the sound of these suggestions, they sound like a really great way to help elves, or casters of any race depending on how you do it.

TheKeeper That's what I was wondering mostly, if it's not viable so be it. But I really do like the thought of helping Elf, even though I don't pay as one.

TheKeeper

Making them combat units would be hard to implement, but we can make attack buffing spells

skigglez

Nolio
I think if they implement measures to make casters more able to defend themselves from attacks, they would have to compensate those that don’t build wizards and give them the ability to defend against magic through techs or something

Nolio

skigglez I agree, but that already exists, at least to a certain extent. Dwarves and Gnomes have magic resistance since they are unviable as magic casters. And like you said, if that's a problem, then we should just build schools and wizards, play a balanced game. But maybe you're right and there would need to be something else. At least there's a discussion happening now. I love the brainstorming on ways to balance though!

skigglez

Nolio
I’m not sure what that resistance actually does, every single spell against me has succeeded as a dwarf. And that’s probably 20+ spells this round

Nolio

skigglez The game guide says "In fact, dwarves have a 40% magic resistance and gnomes have a 35% magic resistance which give them greatly increased chances of counterspelling any spell attempt against them even if they have no wizards."

But it might be one of those "fun mysteries" we have in the game.

skigglez

Nolio
Unless I'm the unluckiest man in the world, I don't think that's working as intended then.

Lord Thane

skigglez probably more likely you were successfully cast against due to the bug I fixed the other day that made it easier for smaller casters to succeed against larger kingdoms. The resistance is built in, and should only affect offensive spells.

trupheus

skigglez

It’s not luck at all. I should have done to you what I did. That was 4:1 schools of a larger KS kingdom and 4000 wizards.

skigglez

Lord Thane
Have had several since the bug fix, but small sample size. To confirm - TS is considered an offensive spell that dwarf should repel 40% of?

Lord Thane

skigglez yes it is an offensive spell that goes through all the checks/balances for offensive spells, and would be negatively affected by the dwarf/gnome resistance when it comes to success chance.

King Haybol

I have a suggestion for balancing offensive spell buffs. Could we implement magic resistance that utilizes MP during spell casting? This would serve as a countermeasure, preventing pure unit kingdoms from being forced into training wizards solely for defense. 🤗🤗🤗

Nolio

King Haybol I like this thought!

The way I see it, MPs could act as a counterspell. To do this you would have to consume them and gain "defensive points" that are just a number. It's a spell you cast that gives you 1:1 magic defense. They're non refundable and they work towards countering the next spell, and are consumed when that happens.

trupheus

Hi. Resident pot and spell wholesale dealer here.

Interesting idea. 1 defensive attribute… interesting idea. It’s not enough to really stop anyone but it’s going to make attacking a caster a little more costly. Considering armies I’ve seen recently have attack and defense values well over 15k even with 1 defense only attack point I am still nothing to that.

I’m very well aware if I had any aspirations to climb the KHoF, I wouldn’t play a caster and I definitely wouldn’t play elf. I have an unrealistic 4:1 schools.

Even with 1 defense only attack point, it would not have stopped anyone from winning against me it merely would have made you lose a bit more.

If wiz are going to die when a defense is failed they should be contributing. I lost over 800 (₂₅%) wizards in the most recent attack against me, yet I have over 8000 space available. That loss is disproportionate to the amount of land I lost, I lost 20% of my land. They cannot be fully exposed to battle or almost all wizards will die in every failed defend.

skigglez

trupheus
I’m talking about the round in general. Haven’t repelled a single spell yet, but dwarf supposed to have resistance. Most probably due to the bug, so going forward i’m hoping to see some failing. Never been fireballed before, it is quite potent i will say that haha. Whether it’s worth giving a retal is yet to be seen. And i do agree, wizards dying when you have excess school room doesn’t seem right.