OP Offensive Spells

skigglez

King Haybol
I believe in you

TheKeeper

Please remember, this version of Thardferr, is not only based on military units attack; Guard towers, Medical centers, and Schools have their reason to exist, also the magical spells are really worth.

Strider

If a kingdom goes all military and can wipe an opposing army, then the time and resources it takes to bounce back from that should be comparable to what spells do.

An offensive spell taking half a kingdoms buildings, also wiping military and cutting production 50% seems broken. I can see there being an opportunity cost of running, or not running schools being there, but it shouldn't be mandatory.

Rate in which wizards rest and the rate that someone can recover from an EQ makes it an impossibility to survive a 1v1 as military heavy kd vs magic heavy. Balance needs fine tuning

Thecatman

Strider I agree it should be toned down. I think the issue is running 1.5:1 schools isn't that big of a deal, it doesn't require a major build commitment to be able to do that much damage and still have a decent army. Best of both worlds and that's not even including the techs that will be coming in the next 1-2 weeks making it even stronger.

FriendsInSpace

Strider Haybol is already fully recovered....and has hit one of the KD's that EQ'd him so i wouldn't worry about not being able to bounce back.

xiAo-Shin Star

Strider

This is what I'm talking about.

Wild Dogs

DougEfresh I hinted at it a couple days ago when I said eq is no different than attacking since you lose troops due to lack of gh space...

trupheus

Can EQ take a castle and land? It’s a completely different kind of attack.

FriendsInSpace

Lord Thane

Successful offensive spells give retals, as they should, but currently failed ones don't. Maybe as a balancing thing, failed fireballs/eq's ect. should give retals as well.

Would make getting some magic defence for military KD's a bit more worth it, as if they block a spell they get a free hit through pro.

Mack10

FriendsInSpace Remember hes Orc (and has been laundering resources between his 'family and friends') a normal player couldnt recover from that for at least 3 days, provided they are not attacked.

Strider

FriendsInSpace how many times can a kingdom rebuild from that? You can stock up resources just like armory, but eventually stockpiles run out for both after prolonged fighting. Once that happens what do timelines look like to recover in both instances?

Currently EQ is probably more than double the amount of time, but I havent done the math.

Not to mention that EQ can be done back to back from multiple kingdoms. Its too easy to kill a kingdom with spells and have a weaker military KD come in and take castles with no recourse from the defender

Mack10

If we are Nerfing the game and giving Protection for the attackers, would it be a good idea to give protection to the targets of negative spells? That many buildings is a bit too much IMO, 100 land of buildings is days of rebuild time, not a day like it would be to lose a castle/land and army.
Ex Fireball 4 hours, EQ 10+?

Nolio

Mack10 By the logic of giving protection to the attackers, the spell caster should be the one getting protection. And Haybol ended up ahead after all that. He got 2 castles, and rebuilt everything within a couple hours. He's not hurting

Mack10

Nolio He is not a normal player. If that happened to you, could you recover that quickly?

Nolio

Mack10 I actually do agree with you lol I was just pointing out how if attacking gives protection, so should offensive casting 😆 It's absurd but the logic is there

My thought is what @Strider says, make your kingdom sustainable. Yes the top guys have seemingly unlimited resources, but they aren't and will eventually run out. If Haybol get EQd another 6 times, they might run out of resources. Do I think that getting back to back EQs is powerful, definitely. Maybe there should be a Magic Protection barrier that makes it so you can get hit by 1 offensive spell, then you get protection. Just like from attacks. Then when it runs out, you're vulnerable again. Just a thought

King Haybol

Mack10 My rapid recovery from the EQs was only possible because I had abundant resources available. Lacking those resources, my KD would have been devastated, and any recovery would have been painstakingly slow. 🤓🤓🤓

FriendsInSpace

Strider I'll answer your question with a different one: How many times can a kingdom recover from being constantly beat down by a whole province military wise? You can stock up resources just like armory, but you get to a point where you can't train units fast enough, and if you don't find a target to send out your military it just gets wiped next turn, then the cycle repeats after the 15 hours of pro are up.

I'm not whining about it, its a fact of the game. Just like if you are going to be exposed to spells (0 schools, 0 wiz) expect to get hit hard by the offensive spells.

People shouldn't just immediately run to the forums to cry (looking at you Haybol) because something in the game needs to be changed to suit THEIR style of play. There are many ways to play this game, and if you go heavy caster than can dish out 2/3 devastating EQ's per day, chances are you aren't going to have the military to defend against those 2/3 retals you are giving out, per day.

Strider

FriendsInSpace I think that the trend of how people run their kingdoms have evolved due to alliances and certain kingdoms not having to worry about attrition. Im running solo, so I have to use a strategy that allows me to rebuild in a day. Im never going to bounce a bunch of attacks and hold a top spot, but with a build that is balanced, if someone does attack me, I will be able to retal and most likely come out ahead over a longer period of time.

Answer: if you're trying to run +1 gh per land with ATC units, you're not going to last in a prolonged fight. If you're running .75 gh amd only keep half filled with majority TC units and can fill all GH in 24 hours and your economy and production matches what you need, its possible to continuously fight an entire prov.

When everyone has gate, its likely that is no longer a viable strategy. If you're getting attacked and bombarded by spells, there is zero recourse for solo players, or even a player in an alliance. Not sure if thats a bad thing or not though tbh. It is nice to have an avenue to take a kingdom down with intense coordination

TheKeeper

Please don't forget, Offensive Spells give retal, BUT desn't get CLI advantages (You can Pre -re)

trupheus

Keeper beat me to it.

Spells don’t eat retals and only give retals. So if a caster has a retal on someone. They hit with a spell because FU I can’t attack you but I can kill 75% of your population in 1 fireball, they are leaving themself open to pre/re and are then down more. If you don’t like casters… just attack them. It hurts to have your schools taken and wizards die. All an EQ does is destroy buildings, disband some military, population leaves. Theres no gain from it. And if you do EQ then attack someone, you just have out 2 retals for the price of 1 attack. Big disadvantage. If a group gets together to EQ you, ok that hurts. It should. You just had 3 people wage magical warfare on you and you had no defense for it.

EQ being a scary thing is good for people who want to play as a caster heavy kingdom. I’m enjoying it. I sell more pot than the cartels. I have a huge deterrent in being able to level a kingdom if someone wants to hit me. But at the end of the day my growth ability is not the same because I’m running a small military (although I had to adapt and make some changes so it does pack a punch). Lookin at you @skigglez you’re the reason I’m not 5:1 schools, jackass. 😆

FriendsInSpace

Nolio Instead of a hard protection, could make it like a stacking resistance bonus, so each successive spell is hard and harder to cast. Might be harder to implement though. Would prevent abuse of the protection system. "Spell passing"

skigglez

FriendsInSpace
I like the stacking resistance on successful spell casts. Definitely also think failed offensive spells should give retals, similar to failed attacks. This would incentivize people to build a small amount of schools and wizards to try and bounce spells. Would balance out the power of EQ/fireball if there’s a risk of giving free retal. Being able to cast offensive spells from protection seems problematic too - should be similar to attacks where the act of casting it breaks pro

trupheus

FriendsInSpace

Stacking resistance is one of the best ideas yet. The more you get spell attacked you naturally build up an immunity. Decreases over time of course. Would have to set up a minimum potency of all offensive spells to prevent people just spamming super weak famine that’s immediately offset by GC at each other to have max res. Or different spells give different levels of resistance. Or you gain a spell resistance to that specific spell.

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