Baby Billy's Battle Bonkers

Jets

TheKeeper is it possible to take more buildings than the land can hold? I thought that 1 land held 10 buildings. Also, pretty sure 20% or so were destroyed in the attack so a bit of empty land. Just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly, 1 land got 16 buildings in the win?

Lord Thane

Still 100% troops losses on both sides, that's not good lol

TheKeeper

@"Lord Thane"#p298I'm going to find out what's going on, it seems weird to me

Lord Thane

TheKeeper yeah like your example thread about the ranged attackers, both sides getting wiped out... needs to be a cap on how much losses can be, and should be a dynamic loss based on the attack/defense. I have no idea what the formula was like before, but I cant remember ever losing more than maybe 15% of troops while attacking or defending, depending on how bad the difference was between armies and how badly the loser lost.

Darteye

Lord Thane nah u had 50% or less remaining when u lost a defense i would say, cause otherwise the retals would struggle if they just got wiped.

there a reason we called it getting cleared and people intentionally left their army out and castle passed until they were about to come outta pro. Then they would gate home attack and pass the castle to their prov mate. Gate obviously takes u outta pro (should here too).

Jets

Lord Thane I remember losing more troops when attacking around similar KS vs attacking +/- 25% of my KS. I can recall several times that a win on defense meant 70% of my troop got wiped and I was just going to get attacked again, but I at least held one attack off.

trupheus

Troops died on this one. No more groundhog day for those poor RTs.

On April 22, 2025 at 23:06:23:

My Lord, our troop's say that someone from Pax Thania at Lithar-7 tried to invade us.
It seems to be armed with few rocks and some sticks, cause they were nothing among our troops.
At last they run like little girls.

We managed to kill : 6 Knight 8 Infantry 4 Pikeman 4 Heavy Infantry 44 Archer 4 Mounted Archers

But we lost : 2 Catapult 51 Infantry 49 Militia 25 Rider 151 Rock thrower 2 Balista

trupheus

Isn't telling me who hit me in a loss. BUT I HAVE MY GUESSES @Lord Thane 😃

On April 22, 2025 at 23:12:02:

My Lord, my Lord, we were invaded by trupheus at Lithar-1! Enemies are upon us. They took everything what they could, our troops were unable to defend our kingdom. We must do something now!

We lost 0 Castle(s) sorrounded by 1 lands.
In this lands are also constructed : 0 Advanced Training Center , 1 Farm , 1 Forge , 1 Guard House , 0 Guard Tower , 4 House , 1 Market , 0 Medical Center , 2 Mill , 1 Mine , 0 School , 1 Training Center ,

We managed to kill : 80 Knight 80 Infantry 80 Pikeman 80 Heavy Infantry 80 Archer 80 Mounted Archers

But we lost : 89 Catapult 89 Infantry 89 Militia 89 Rider 89 Rock thrower 89 Balista

Darteye

trupheus i dont think that we should be losing 1 land like this...i coulda swore max you could take was half on land. Then castles were always a ratio, so if you had 2 cas and lost you would lose half ur KD. Hence why people usually tried to jump to 3 so u only lost a third 😛

Lord Thane

Alright I added a tweak to set a cap on each attack phase during an attack to max 30% per unit type.

In an epic battle against Trupheous, his 100 of each units against my 100 of each units:

We managed to kill : 89 Catapult 89 Infantry 89 Militia 89 Rider 89 Rock thrower 89 Balista
But we lost : 80 Knight 80 Infantry 80 Pikeman 80 Heavy Infantry 80 Archer 80 Mounted Archers

Tweaking it further, capping to 30% per phase, per attack, and adding a randomness factor so its not the same robotic results every time:

We managed to kill : 78 Catapult 76 Infantry 77 Militia 78 Rider 77 Rock thrower 80 Balista
But we lost : 60 Knight 60 Infantry 60 Pikeman 60 Heavy Infantry 60 Archer 60 Mounted Archers

I think what we need is capped casualties per phase - ranged, short, melee, then toss in some randomness.

Jets

Lord Thane are you taking into account the strategies selected?

Xliest

Lord Thane yes there was randomness in the losses, and yes there are casualties per phase. Range would go first deal a portion of their total damage and losses wound be calculated based on strategy and number of troops of each class in the battle, then some amount of randomness, maybe a portion of the wounded would die. Next short range, then finally melee. With emphasis on melee vs melee damages taken I think 20-40% of damage would be dealt to ranged and 60-80% damage to melee. There were other other rules and mechanics like hiding and invisibility of shadow warriors and mages.

That’s how it worked in the good old days.

Jules

Lord Thane

Is the 70% defense rule in this game?

Lord Thane

Jets Yeah strategies and tech and everything else is part of the attack calcs, right now I'm just working on reducing losses so it's not 100%, and also make it more realistic/random. So far added a few randomizers, dampeners, caps and it's starting to look better.

Currently have caps set at 15% for ranged, 25% for short range, and 30% for melee, as @Xliest mentioned, the melee is where the most chaotic casualties occur while the fewest happen at long range (kind of historically accurate = used to thin ranks). I think this is a pretty good setup, but maybe need to tweak those % even more, currently losing half my army in tests (sorry Trupheous, I will make it up to you lol):

We managed to kill : 69 Catapult 70 Infantry 70 Militia 70 Rider 69 Rock thrower 70 Balista
But we lost : 45 Knight 45 Infantry 45 Pikeman 45 Heavy Infantry 45 Archer 45 Mounted Archers

Next I'm gonna inject some entropy at the end of each unit's loss calc, just to make it more realistic, less robotic. Trying to spread the damage out in a less basic way (hence 45 of each unit dying, currently).

TheKeeper

I rolled back Thane's cap because I realized there are undead in the game, and those who died in the ranged phase also attacked in melee combat.

Now, with the bug fixed, we'll re-evaluate the 30% cap.

Mack10

I am not sure if this is the best place to post this, but with some army out, I am not building troops.
I have been stuck building 2 ballista for 2 hours now. They are just on build...
I have not tried any other troops but will this tick.

Lord Thane

Awe hell yeah, this looks a lot better for randomness (we each got 100 of every unit):
We managed to kill : 68 Catapult 73 Infantry 68 Militia 68 Rider 70 Rock thrower 68 Balista
But we lost : 43 Knight 46 Infantry 46 Pikeman 46 Heavy Infantry 42 Archer 49 Mounted Archers

Defender kind of got screwed on that, losing ₇₀% of their whole army, that's pretty disheartening for a player. I think it would be better to dial things down so this generic test attack would have resulted in more like 1/3 attacker losses and maybe at most 40% defender losses? This just seems excessively deadly for attacker and defender, huge cost with little gains.

But, the randomness is great, haha!

I'm also only getting 1 land in all attack wins, so probably need to work on the loot part too.

Jules

Lord Thane This is why they implemented the 70% rule ages ago. You would only defend with 70% on any given attack, so you didnt lose 100%. It is indeed disheartening lol. I'd be looking to rebalance later for sure.

I'd always had the idea of being able to set troops being trained "in reserve", and being able to move them out later. But not being able to manually move troops back into reserve. /shrug

DougEfresh

how did that many wm die in that br?

Darteye

orrrr if you build a shit army and someone hits you with a good army, u defend with 70% (castle rule) and 70% gets slaughtered cause u got weak mili. Only thing that kills this would be the bottom feeding. Not sure how thard handled this but like i said, it seemed shadowwarrior BRs were the only wonky ones.

but i guess it would make bottomfeeding less of an issue if they cant actually kill ur military.