Did I get him or he got me?

Lord Thane

xiAo-Shin Star I think if you had used your racial strat then the best case scenario would have been you both get wiped out 100% casualties, tie goes to the defender. They had too much offense against your too small defense, only way you could have won is by killing them at long range, or send more heavily armored units / less fodder.

xiAo-Shin Star

Lord Thane
Seems like Undead is no good at all on any strat we use.. It's a Dead end.
If that's less fodder and more heavily armored then I won't be able to reach his KS. I would be much higher KS by then and thats more KS penalty for me l, his no longer 80% with my KS. This means another dead end for Undead.
And what do you mean by killing them in Long range? Does this mean my 4k ATC Wrath rider that useless and did not manage to kill in long range even do they have fodders Legion in front?

Konkistador

Do think there is something wrong on the undead config, or agree with Xiao it is a dead end:

We managed to kill : 73 Shadow Warrior 180 Rusher 394 Slother 66 Wolf Master 472 Slinger 125 Axe Thrower

But we lost : 79 Dark Knight 24263 Skeletal Legion 1059 Wraith Pikeman 0 Abomination Caragous 1235 Phantom Archer 72 Wraith Rider

skigglez

Konkistador
you need to understand how Orc works to realize that BR is correct - they do a LOT of short ranged damage so your legion all die before they get a chance to hit. They are immune to long range, not short range. However hard legion counters ranged units, Orc counters legion even harder.

Konkistador

skigglez I do get that. However as Xiao said his BR was against a much smaller kingdom. And even if he was using racial strategy this would incur an 25% damage in only other units with also soak the whole of rang and short for the benefit of SL survival which are the weakest unit in the game and their damage further reduced with the blades tech updates. Running an only SL army is the only way to avoid this damage but useless against most races.
Again even against Elf which the race should do well below is from a smaller kingdom. I do understand most damage is in range.

We managed to kill : 732 Mage 631 Swordman 548 Lanceman 761 Caragous 655 Archer 796 Elite Archer

But we lost : 366 Dark Knight 10352 Skeletal Legion 2184 Wraith Pikeman 0 Abomination Caragous 2680 Phantom Archer 384 Wraith Rider

xiAo-Shin Star

skigglez
This is why Legion must have immune to Short Range. Because this whole thing, this is Unbalanced against other races.

skigglez

Konkistador
The smaller kingdom gets bonuses for being bottom fed on, the lower you go the stronger they get and the more units you lose. I know you guys want to think that Undead sucks, but it just isn't true. You are not playing it correctly, simple as that.

Muh Dude

skigglez Can confirm. Got my shit rocked by this undead. Bounced my "op" dwarf ass like it was nothing. And the follow up. And then took both retals.. Quite impressive really

FriendsInSpace

You know what race does suck? Elves.

FriendsInSpace

xiAo-Shin Star I think I'm good with my game play, its a bit balanced. I can manage to have 1.7:1 GH and 1:1 schools.

xiAo-Shin Star Seems like Undead is no good at all on any strat we use.. It's a Dead end.

Not sure how you reconcile those two statements, but you do you man. Best of luck.

FriendsInSpace

xiAo-Shin Star if you make legion immune in swarm to short range then undead is way too OP. Legion undead would counter 3 races.

xiAo-Shin Star

FriendsInSpace
There is no counter, its all about balance races. Well, there are slight of a counter but not to the point its Dead End for Undead.
As you can see with the Racial Strat. All your troops became fodder. So I doubt it would be that OP. though it gives us chance to reach with the range units of the enemies but still they are weak and they are easily killed by SW with their melee and hiding skills.

skigglez

FriendsInSpace
Honestly I think the best way to make undead playable is to make legion immune to all sources of damage. It will make them more balanced against all races. Also make them a 10/10 with no weapon or gold cost/upkeep. Try that out and then we can see what further buffs are required to make @xiAo-Shin Star be able to successfully pilot the race.

FriendsInSpace

xiAo-Shin Star that's why you don't hit orcs lol.

It is unfortunate that you guys picked a race that are strong against the two races with low representation, but skigglez has bounced a strong dwarf and human in the same tick and managed to take the retals.

Swarm already renders 3/6 units in elf useless, and a 4th unit pretty much useless. It renders gnomes completely helpless if they don't have mass militia. If you add short range immunity to it as well, you ruin 3/6 orc units. That's too much.

We've given you all the tips to play it effectively, I don't know what else to say. You will fail as undead if you keep trying to use wizards, plain and simple.

xiAo-Shin Star

FriendsInSpace
I think I'm good with my game play, its a bit balanced. I can manage to have 1.7:1 GH and 1:1 schools. There is no problem with Undead having Schools. Do take note, Offensive Spells are still around.
Maybe its just the KS Penalty that is harsh or its just a Dead end for Undead.

xiAo-Shin Star

FriendsInSpace
Let's say I don't have schools, what's the difference and benefits that will help me win on that BR I posted? Consider I am already 197k ks and he is 80% of my ks. If I put that schools to my Guard House then I won't be able to reach him, his no longer 80% of my KS. Does that help me fight even/fair against other races with same KS same GHs?

FriendsInSpace

xiAo-Shin Star if you deleted all your schools and wizards, you would drop down to likely 150k ks. Schools and wizards falsely inflate your ks, making you think you're stronger than you are.

10k wizards is like 30k ks. And schools give more ks than most buildings.

skigglez

FriendsInSpace
Just stop, it’s pointless. He thinks he’s doing it correctly, let him do his thing. I’m done trying to help because they’re so convinced they’re right. I hope Thane buffs undead because it’s so bad, we undead players need help

xiAo-Shin Star

FriendsInSpace
I don't know how you calculate things. My basis here is GH vs GH. Not the KS or Schools. If he has more GH its no doubt he won. But if he has less GH than mine and no Barracks, how fked up Undead is, can't even win against TC units. lol.
If we both has the same GH, then that would be a fair hard fight, but still calculating my ATC and my fodders against TC, thats even more fked, how the hell Legion do their job.

trupheus

FriendsInSpace

Had to test this. 1 elf wiz (assume same for all races) is .5 KS.

I’m almost done compiling the list of what every building gives for KS. It might lead to some interesting discussion.

FriendsInSpace

xiAo-Shin Star never mind. Good luck man.

Enphetamy

FriendsInSpace lol. I felt that resignation over here man.

xiAo-Shin Star

FriendsInSpace
I know mate, I get what your pointing out, and I do agree with your style. The no schools Undead. I mean that would be great. But that feels like playing Gnome. I rather play Gnome than play Undead if we talk about having no Schools for sure I get high chance fighting with all the races. For Undead, I don't think that is possible.

« Previous Page Next Page »