Earthquake

FriendsInSpace

Uh huh. You don't understand sarcasm much, do you? You bitch and moan constantly in chat about people castle passing being dishonorable, but then whine about EQ giving retals that half the time we can't take without exposing ourselves to others because you just want to be a little prick.

Truph did it way better last round, this is just a poor mans version of it. Hypocritical as well, because truph was advocating for the spells to be fixed and did it to prove a point, meanwhile you want it to be more broken so you can fuck around but try and never find out.

Enphetamy

Tells me I dont understand sarcasm as the sarcasm goes sailing by him. Rich, very rich! Being able to annihilate the opposition not enough for you to break protection? Imagine living in a world where protection is a guarantee that you've become terrified of playing the game without your safety blanket. At least you have an avenue to deal with what's bothering you. You might not like it, but at least it exists.

Ive only done this shit because whoever runs the Hodor account insisted on playing like a cunt. You think I enjoy this? You think I wanted to commit to useless ass spells? You think I like having my kingdom wiped every other day for the sake of being able to counter what my enemy is doing? Get real man, this shit isn't fun for anybody.

FriendsInSpace

Enphetamy

LOL today was literally the first day I was in pro for the past week. Any one of you guys could have taken a swing, I just sat there and farmed until I got bored and hit Cyber.

And I warned everyone that Elf is a useless race that can only affect shit by abusing EQ mechanics at the end of last round, and in the mini, and yet you still chose to go elf. That either means you're retarded, or you like being a cunt yourself.

Enphetamy

FriendsInSpace I dont know who you are my guy.

Enphetamy

FriendsInSpace so I pick a race I've never played before because I want to have fun with the game (whoaaaaaa im so stupid for not wanting to do everything necessary to win.) I get backed into a corner because someone insists on pushing the limits of dumb mechanics, and Im somehow the bad guy for responding in kind? I know youre not stupid, your posts are thought out and your writing is well structured.

So, take a step back and distance yourself from the situation, and look at it from there. Does it look the same once you remove the emotionality from it?

FriendsInSpace

Enphetamy You dont know who I am, yet you claim im hiding in pro all the time and nobody can touch me? That about tracks with what I expect of you.

Enphetamy

FriendsInSpace I wasn't talking about you man. At least I don't think I was. Im pretty sure I'm not talking about you.

skigglez

Enphetamy I get backed into a corner because someone insists on pushing the limits of dumb mechanics

How the hell did Hodor back anyone into a corner? He was chilling at 300 land 1 castle and attacked maybe 5 people over the course of weeks. All he wanted to do was ride out the early game and tech because the castle chance shit was a horrible experience to play through. He was on like the 3rd and 4th page of the KHOF, why are we pretending that he was some threat that forced you into rushing EQ to deal with lol. To get EQ that quick you had to be going for it long before Hodor got to a high land value.

FriendsInSpace

Enphetamy John Goblikon, if that clears up any confusion. You've attempted to EQ me 3 times, and 1 got through. And I guarantee you the one that got through did way more damage to me than the 2 that backfired on you.

It's a broken mechanic, it needs to be corrected to be fair to all players involved. The amount of people you are able to EQ at any given time means not everyone can take retals, because you swiftly drop out of the 50% range thanks to Thanes change on retal rights.

Yes Elf is a terrible race and it really needs changes. But the EQ stuff isn't it.

Also, yeah I'm pissed off, and my writing in this conversation reflects that. Apologies for the anger, but this is frustrating because we have been bitching and moaning about this spell since June and the devs can't seem to find the correct way to change it, for whatever reason.

Lord Thane

I figured out how to fix it after trupheus ran his first stunt, but I was ignored and due to lack of support I couldn't convince Keeper either.

The fix is to cap school effectiveness, which stops super powered wiz. Then hitting the max damages is harder, and wiz can't rest as quickly, and defenses can actually defend.

In the system I thought of if I was to rewrite the entire magic system, I would also switch from all spells using the same calc engine and create a custom engine for success and damage unique per spell as well - but this wouldn't be near as important as capping school ratio effectiveness.

skigglez

Lord Thane Or just make it not give any protection when you cast it, and change nothing else. It would self regulate and not necessitate having to completely gut all other magic because of one spell.

Lord Thane

skigglez idk, that just seems like kicking the can down the road until the next time someone runs EQ on the top-10 and the EQ debates rage on again.

If schools were capped at something like 2 or 2.5, then a caster might need to use 100% of their wizards to cast 1 full powered EQ, and then not be able to cast it again for at least 12 ticks or maybe longer. It would make wizard counts more meaningful than just school ratio, where currently the school ratio is much more valuable since it amplifies each individual wizard so much.

If the school ratio cap was in place I doubt we'd need any of the other crapola that's been sprinkled on EQ/FB like retals and protection and dampeners and backfires. Because most casters would be having a much more difficult time successfully casting, and when they did the damage wouldn't be so extraordinary. If trupheus had been capped at 2:1 schools his 28k wizards would only have been able to fire off maybe 2-3 EQs, and the damages would never have been as high as they were - they'd have been naturally lower like 10%, not 20 or 30 or 40 or whatever it was.

Everything that keeps getting piled on to restrict spells is just a byproduct of school ratio power multiplication.

FriendsInSpace

Lord Thane I think a cap of the effectiveness of schools is just another limiting band-aid, sorry. In the short term it may work to ease some of the issues, but in the long term magic needs a complete re-work, as evidenced by you saying in chat that after 4 schools/land the equations get all messed up.

The issue we are facing this round is the fact that there is no real way to get back at the kingdom doing it. Last round when Truph did it, because of the retals, he got smoked (especially because of the KS difference). Then the backfire percentages were put in to prevent a 20k ks kingdom from EQing the 200k ks ones, magic protection/attack protection for the caster at 15% (then for every EQ after the mini round), and then the change to not being able to take retals under 50% really fucked it all again.

The pile up of band-aid fix to band-aid fix is causing unintended side effects. Had the 50% retal rule not been changed, then Ender wouldn't be able to pull the shit he is now. Sure, it's not as effective as what truph did because of the backfire chance, but I bet you the 2 or 3 EQs he gets through are more damaging to us than the 4 or 5 backfires are to him. And we can do very little in retaliation, as even ignoring the want for CLI, once one of us takes a retal he drops below 50%, the others have to let the retals go.

While I agree with the sentiment behind the 50% rule, I think we need to address the root cause as to why its so devastating to kingdoms (I replied to you in the thread suggestions thread about KS balancing with a novel, if you have time to read and give your thoughts.)

These things all tie together, and I'm a firm believe we need to get to the base issues first, then work on tweaks later.

skigglez

Lord Thane it’s not the power of the earthquake that’s the issue per-say, it’s the fact that it grants protection to the caster. That’s the part that makes it oppressive. Even if the caster used it on targets that wouldn’t get CLI from taking the retal, they would at least open themselves up to attack from other kingdoms which would be a natural deterrent. Take away the protection and let someone run 8:1 schools if they want. Cast EQ every hour on a different target if you want, but do so at the risk of exposing your own kingdom to hits every time you do it. Natural balance achieved without having to screw over people who want to be casters with more than 2 schools per land. And this would also be much simpler to implement.

trupheus

Casting offensive spells is easier than casting beneficial spells. Again. Say that out loud and tell me it makes sense.

Sure put a cap on the effectiveness of schools per land. Are you talking hard cap like if you try to build more schools than 2 per land you’re going to be told not today satan? Or just a cap in the equation so that even if someone has 8:1 schools (because you’re not really committed until you run 8:1 ya filthy amateurs) when casting they’re only getting the effect of 2:1?

Is that really addressing the issue of magic being in a terrible spot?

skigglez

And also failed spells not granting retals or taking the caster out of protection makes zero sense. Should be consistent with attacking - if your attack gets through, regardless of outcome, you grant a retal and take yourself out of protection.

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