Orc Issues

Darteye

SW are the only saving grace to orc late game armies....their TC falls off hard and WMs suck and u need to many to get a reasonable boost to short range dmg

TheKeeper

Shadow Warriors only hide at 25% ratio in melee phase, maybe you was zeroed at ranged phase

Blahblah

Whatever it was I got nothing coming back. Against an elf. Not sure what he's got for def. I'm going to ask.

Blahblah

Blahblah We managed to kill : 28 Mage 62 Swordman 55 Lanceman 29 Caragous 95 Archer 45 Elite Archer

But we lost : 2000 Shadow Warrior 0 Rusher 0 Slother 1000 Wolf Master 103 Slinger 1000 Axe Thrower

saadht

Blahblah

Now this looks REALLY off.

Lord Thane

saadht not really. @Blahblah got his cheeks clapped in the long and mid range. Funnily enough this was the exact same scenario another orc faced in another thread (Baby Billy's Battle Bonkers). These are just raw calcs of troops, no modifiers like GT/MC.

Defenders Army
Attack 28,330
Defense 46,133
Ranged 45,213

Blahblah Army
Attack 25,000
Defense 11,206
Ranged 4,206

Seems pretty clear the Elf had all the advantages here. By the time the melee phase started Blablah was already smoked.

Blahblah

Lord Thane thank you
I was trying to ask him his numbers troops, GTs, MCs but he's not responding. Couldn't get any help from him to figure it out.

bierlym

Lord Thane This may be the stats. but this still sucks... Losing thousands of troops and only killing what like 200. I still say the battles are not well balanced. and with results like that...who gonna stick around and keep playing?

saadht

Won't it be better to have 25% of the battle run as follows:

LR -> SR -> Melee

Repeat 4 times

This way LR will not always be OP and will give every type of unit a chance? If LR is so OP, then a lot LR heavy races (IE gnome) will kill the complete armies before getting to the melee phase even though melee units should be doing some damage.

Just a thought.

Lord Thane

saadht yeah long range is OP, that's how it's always been. That's why you see massive armies of LR units, and why I was thinking of going 100% archer - attempt.to totally knock out enemies in LR lol

That's also why in other threads when I was testing options for reducing battle casualties I made long range the weakest at causing casualities, with mid range at moderate casualties, and melee ar highest casualties.

My idea was to make battle more realistic while also reducing overall casualties = make battle more friendly / less costly.

I staged casualties to cap per each battle phase, with long range at 15% = this is to replicate a sort of "volleys of arrows to thin enemy ranks", followed by mid range cap at 25% to simulate "skirmish" where the battle is getting heated up and more casualties happen. Then finally Melee casualties capped at 40% to simulate the brutal rate of death for close quarters combat... With the caps in place I was getting pretty decent losses 30-40%, no zeroed out conditions.

But anyways, my idea was shelved due to unpopular demand 😭

TheKeeper

Lord Thane Someone said instead of 3 phases, do a cycle ranged -> short -> melee -> ranged -> short -> melee , sounds good to me

Jules

Lord Thane

Reminder that long range used to have a 50% factor applied. It was nerfed very early on. I don't recall if it affect SR.

But I guess we're only 10% above that baseline now.

saadht

TheKeeper

THIS.

CyberPtra

Suggestion. Maybe make the range phrase variable/chaotic (entropy)…. When you shoot something you have a chance of hitting the target. So you can be lucky and hit 90% or unlucky and hit 10%. Maybe the wind is blowing in the wrong direction. Maybe there are obstructions. Or the sun is in the wrong place…etc.

Maybe each race has a specific “range” or accuracy.

Elves 60-95
Humans 40-85
Orc 10-90
Dwarves 30-60
Gnomes 10-60

Or set bell curves for each race with average at different places (and set variances). Humans avg 50 + narrow variance. Elves average at 75 + narrow variance. Gnomes at average 25 and wide variance. Orc at 50 with wide variance. Dwarves 50 with “medium” variance. I don’t remember the math.

Or whatever range deemed appropriate and balanced for the races and units. I just think RT just have terrible training (less accurate) and elves are more accurate. Dwarves are not really specialized in range. And orcs are completely random. Humans being “average”.

That way the range phase may be good or may be terrible. I think the original Thardferr just halved the ranged phase damage… which is essentially what we are doing by introducing randomness.

Blahblah

3 phases is great, long-range short-range meele That's how i would get it done. Range units should always have. A heavy advantage of dealing damage first, but they should also always have the biggest weakness when it comes to defense or hit points. If a ranged race doesn't take the enemy out, then they would suffer even more casualties, then the mealy or short ranged races would in short and mealy phases that's usually how it's worked for years. If you don't do it that way, you take away the point of having ranged units. Why do you think some races have certain units where they're damaged. Depending on the strategy is dealt more in the short range instead of meele.
When I was designing my own game before I realized that my ability to code was nil, and none... Things were figured out in this order
Strategy and its impact upon the units where their damage would be dealt, one of three faces
Then it was technology, the impact the technology would have on the point values of attack or defense.
Then damage was dealt first. Long range, then short range, and then finally meele. Also forgot that. After each phase arranged short ranged and meele... the dead were removed.

Blahblah

I also have a question above. I think it's said that orcs shadow warriors hide at twenty five percent yet.The cloak says that the chance of seeing them immediately increases by twenty five percent. Weren't that mean they were dead and have no chance of being hidden? Or am I just reading and understanding everything incorrectly?lol

Xliest

Jules in my opinion hiding would only affect range how are you going to hit me with an arrow if I’m behind a wall… sourrounding strategy takes SW’ out from behind the castle walls and places them around the battle field which would increase the chance they are detected. It seems like they should have at least a 50% base chance to hide in a standard battle surrounding would reduce this to something like 37.5% and SW tech would increase it back to 52.5% with surrounding in the old game I’m pretty sure this is how it worked because I’m certain you would win about 50% of the battles with SW heavy armies otherwise it wouldnt be viable. If SW’s got caught 75% of the time that’s way to prohibitive.

Xliest

Xliest SW’s base stats are not very good so if you get caught you lose everything and they are not all that easy to train at 6:1im only training 45 and I have 3ATC per acre

bierlym

unless you running huge TC/ATC ratios, all ranged is very difficult. and when you lose 100% of your troops, retraining thousands of Ranged takes days, maybe weeks depending on your size. Starting over with zero troops after every defeat is just bad for the game (in my opinion).

If you are way over powered, you should be able to run and save your troops. How about a strategy that would allow that?

DougEfresh

bierlym everyone is running huge atc and tc right now. It's unlimited resources.