Bottom Feeding countermeasures implemented!

Jets

Jaxx I would say in a week or so we will know if the implementation of these ideas work well or not. You have valid points as we are in a micro state over macro for the game play. It's okay to be scared that we could lose the core of Thardferr, good news, the devs are listening and I don't think it will take much to revert back if some ideas end up being shit. The best we can do is to continue voicing our concerns and let the big ol dinosaur brains at the top make there decisions.

Give them credit for preferring to make polls rather than decisions. Not many would have such diligence to allow common folk voices be heard.

Xliest

I dont understand what y’all don’t like. bottom feeding is a massive problem obviously it’s talked about over and over and over, this seems like a very fair solution I agree that there should maybe be some protections afforded from suicide bombers something like you can’t attack some one 2.5 x your size… the reason for this discrepancy is becasue in the early game which is the only pet of the game we have seen so far the Ks can shift so wildy after just one attack so if you were to attack some one your size when they were sleeping you might be able to out grow them in the 6 or 8 hours that they are offline, and that is certainly not fair. But once they get past 2.5 x they have no reason to interact with your small kingdom and you should not be sending your troops into a slaughter house like that anyways… currently the system favours defenders so as long as you keep some army at home a suicide should not have sucess.

saadht

Xliest

Let's take this morning (or last night for you)'s events and recall them.

4 kd's less than 1/2 my size hit and tried to break me, and failed. One was larger, sure, but he also failed. Then a final kd less than 1/2 my size hit me and broke me. One of these people was you, so you have a very good idea what I'm talking about.

Now if the penalty is applied to retals, I cannot take all my retals since all the KD's are much smaller. Even if I now take only one retal, I will lose more troops and won't get much land with the castle.

So I have no recourse. Bottomfeeding penalty is fine, if you're the aggressor. Don't penalize people dealing with 5 hits who had to retrain their armies anyway. Retraining armies, filling empty land, all of this is so difficult in this version because of 40% destruction of gained buildings and peasants eating food which means you must be at double optimum pop for food all the time (more so when army is out) unless you're undead.

But like I said, deaf ears. I know nothing I say will be taken into consideration so I guess the rest should enjoy the game.

Jets

saadht jokes on you, I never sleep. I still believe, and I am making assumptions, that since you are much larger and those smaller ones bounced off you, the troops you train in quantity will take only a couple hours to match what would take them all day to rebuild. So. You could attack them back because your recovery rate is greatly increased. But that's just like my opinion man.

Lord Thane

saadht good lord, that crying pepe meme is perfect, just perfect lol

I agree the penalty shouldn't affect retals.

Xliest

saadht One of these people was you, so you have a very good idea what I'm talking about.

lol I do know what you are talking about but. Let’s say that you have 5 generals and 5 people attack you to break you they probably lose their whole army which is more costly than the land, then you send your goons into to pretal for you they each get a castle, then you retal and get 5 castles how is that a good trade?

We are simply trying to find a middle ground, and honestly reduced attack power is a fine way for that to work when you are bottom feeding scum.

Cora

Konkistador sending aid outside your province shouldn’t be restricted. What about elves who sell casting spells? How would they get paid? I know the devs are putting it into the market, but even then you should be able to set up a contract with whoever you want and receive payment from them.

Jaxx

Cora that should run throught the market system

saadht

Jets

Let me just ask you a question.

Do you have a logic against no penalty on retal?

Big kd’s became big by being active and committed. If you wanna pick a fight with a big kd no problem, but there should be consequences.

If big KD was the aggressor, nerf that fucker. But at least let him take his retals in peace.

TheKeeper

Jaxx Ugh, I'm not english native speaker, so I don't get that point

Taking it further, we tried to democratize the game, but it's not written in stone, we'll make evolve over time, thanks to actual technologioes we can go at least 20x faster than the original one, if the countermeasures doesn't fit well, we just will change it.

Jaxx

TheKeeper
Im not either but i do ok. What i mean is, you currently have players that are not good enough to come to a forum and debate in english. Well, being vocal about things doesnt make them right. If people want you to remove attacks just to see who farms faster, would you do it? Doesnt make any sense to me. Im cool with having an opinion, im cool with you open comunication and the polls to feel the 'pulse' of the people but you cant (well ofc you can, but i think its dangerous) listen to every complaint.

Anyway, let the democracy work then, it's your game, you know better.

Jaxx

Lord Thane
Unnecessary comment about saadht.

Lord Thane

Jaxx if he would stop complaining that nobody reads or cares about his comments then I wouldn't have to bully him about it.

Anyways, I was agreeing with him, so that should make him happy 😁💪😇

saadht

Lord Thane

You can say whatever you’d like to me. Call me a crybaby or a complainer, idc. Just fix the damn problems like nerfing your retal ability if the offender is smaller than you. Just make this game make sense logically. I wished for the game to be back a long time and now that it is, I am quite invested in trying to make it work as best as I know how to suggest. If you’d like, I’ll stop. No worries.

Lord Thane

saadht no I appreciate your ideas, and it does make a difference. But don't get disappointed when we don't implement them all, or accuse us of some kind of preferential treatment. I've shut down ideas from all the ppl you say we're exclusively listening to.

I'm most likely going to add your idea to prevent the KS penalty from affecting retals, that was a good idea 👍

Muh Dude

The reason you see other people's ideas getting implemented is because we're throwing so many out there. Only the good ones stick. I've had a lot of ideas ignored cause they were countered by better arguments or just a bad idea in general. But that's brainstorming..

saadht

Muh Dude

Well, I don’t know if anybody ever logically told me why some of the ideas are bad. I’ll recap them here:

1) peasants eating too much food. This was already addressed early in the og game so I stand by it.
2) Attacked land only losing 15-20% of the buildings not 40%. We must make attacking attractive.
3) faster pop growth. All your empty pop should be filled within 4hours (1 hour with NG). This would also ease gold production and allow you to use this pop in production. Further, NG is broken as it takes something like 17:1 wizzes so making it powerful enough to fill 200 houses in 1 tick should be there.
4) BF penalty not applying to retals.
5) more than X (150% or 200%) uphitting should be banned.
6) offensive spells only give land retals not castles.
7) fix wiz:land ratio, it was already done in the og game, 15:1 was godbless level ratio not natural growth in the old game.

I’m not asking for radical changes. Heck some of these changes were already made to the og game. I just haven’t heard logical rebuttals to why any of this is a bad idea, except that we can’t “adapt to my playing style”.

TheKeeper

saadht

Sounds pretty cool, I'll for sure implement some of your ideas soon, except 6, I have no clue how to implement it, what if the attacker does a offensive spell, then attacks, then another offensive spell.

and multiple scenarios like that

Xliest

saadht

peasants eating food, is a good change. It’s logical that your cousins need to eat right?
Buildings transferred on attack I agree could use some tweaking I’ve even argued for this in the past
Faster pop grow absolutely needed the log function limiting growth now is not a great idea. If we go back to og thardferr it was 10% of pop per tick. I’m for maybe reducing this number a hair but full pop in under 8 hours should 100% be a reasonable expectation.
Retals need to be looked at it was a problem then it’s a problem now. I like the scaling BF protection that includes reduced attack power for the larger Kd I think it’s fair.
I somewhat agree but it has to be a number that can’t be out grown in 12 hours. So I’m closer to 3x.
No comment magic is trash and needs to be looked at hard.
Same as 6.

Muh Dude

saadht One more thing.. You opinions are all good (minus the bottom feeding, we're trying to grow the game and stomping out casuals isn't gonna help. Take it as a badge of honor it took 4 people to break you) But adding those ideas to the bottom of a 50 post thread is a good way for people to miss/ignore your suggestions. Try to keep one subject per thread so the discussion can stay on point and it's easier for Thane and Keeper to pick out the key points with their AI witchcraft. Also, polls help a lot by getting a feel of what other people think who don't want to argue numbers

saadht

TheKeeper

For #6 how about we don’t call them retals? We call them spell payback. This way we’d have a completely new function that gives a retal but restricts your castle being taken. So if you cast offensive, you give a spell payback. Then you attack, you give a retal. You cast another offensive, another spell payback.

Idk I’m not a developer maybe I’m oversimplifying.

saadht

Xliest

For 1, I’m not saying go back to 0 food like OG game. I’m saying reduce intake. Maybe try 3 food per pop. Makes more balance since we now also have undead who will have extra spaces because they’re not running 1.2:1 farms.

For 4, I’m saying keep the BF penalty but only if you’re the offender. For example, every time I’ve “BFed you”, it’s been a retal. If you don’t want to be BFed by a larger kd don’t hit them first, it’s simple.

For 5, I don’t mind if it’s 2.5x but it must be defined. It’s not a problem now but in the past I’ve had enemies create multiple kd and a week into the fight keep suiciding me with smaller kds. They never grew beyond 1 castle so at least you can army kill them for some land on a retal.

Ok I’m grateful for @TheKeeper ’s response. I’m actually grateful for your response too Xliest since at least now we’re talking logically and not just dismissing.

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