Improvement suggestions (but still keeping the Thardferr cool)

Konkistador

Few ideas that for the Thardferr community to consider and vote for. (Note: please don't use your multi to vote more than once 😁)

Konkistador

AdinTheDark

Konkistador Konkistador

I’m voting no on both.

Single-race provinces like gnomes and dwarves tend to buy spells and many other similar items.
This undermines one of my favorite aspects of this game: the play-driven politics. If one province gains a significant advantage over everyone else, there would be little to no way to bring them down. Personally, I don’t believe there should be retail rights at all, and that’s only because I don’t think there should be protection after the initial start. Protection and retail rights lead to castle passing, and farming is the safest way to grow either way.

Konkistador

Lord Thane

Idk how we could do anything about preventing a pre, since a pre isn't a pre until someone with a retal follows up.

Not only that, but there's many legitimate attacks that aren't really pre, but look like it due to chance. It's very plausible you just happen to get attacked and then retaled by someone else, totally unrelated.

So realistically, there's nothing that can be done about a "pre", since it doesn't literally exist. It's just a regular attack.

Which was where my idea about a new kind of "castle protection" comes from, how we can manipulate the logic to bust the effectiveness of getting attacked + retaliated, whether by chance or strategy. But it's complicated since we don't want to encourage castle passing as a way of gaining castle protection, and also don't want to leave the guy with a legit retal to be prevented from getting their castle back.

Konkistador

Lord Thane agree might be the most complicated point to implement. However in my view also the one that needs more attention as the imbalance of having 2 3 hits gb on a kingdom to take a retal from 70% of the provinces and some multis working together makes it nearly impossible for the defending team. So how the implementation looks like I don't really care as long as it takes away the point of having massive aliances. Exception for Naps. Guess could make a retal only go thru if the previous attack is made by the same province otherwise the protection will still be valid and therefore the retal rights cannot be used until the Kingdom is opp or a follow up attack prevail is made by a prove kingdom. Or some suggestion I've seen before. That provinces are officially in war and becomes a protected province vs province. Whatever is done to remove this will be welcomed in my eyes.

trupheus

Lord Thane

Light bulb. What if there was a way to tell?

Add in a "war party". Sends like a KM. You say what you're contributing and who hits first. Those are the only want to take retals. So if a random makes the hit, you don't get to retal.

Dang it, I just talked myself out of my idea because it would be so easy to hit and castle pass right away so that the retal can never be taken.

Cora

@Konkistador voting no on all but the last one. I don’t play in Lithar. Very few play in the race provinces. That limits all of your proposals. What if I’m in a prov alone? Yes, I use the Market, but I still have contacts that I would like to cast on or trade with. Putting all of these in place would be a hindrance on players in lone provinces. Thardferr is a community. It has a social aspect to it. Let’s not limit it, if possible.

Lord Thane

Konkistador could make a retal only go thru if the previous attack is made by the same province otherwise the protection will still be valid and therefore the retal rights cannot be used until the Kingdom is oop

This would encourage castle passing = attacker takes a castle from you, then has their buddy in a different province attack them, now your retal is void and the attacker is safe from all.

I guess castle passing is a response to pre-re. To prevent pre-re, you castle pass so you'll only face a retal. If you don't castle pass, then you face the possible pre-re. If we add functions to discourage just one, then the other will flourish to either benefit the attack or defender.

If we got rid of retals, then castle passing is buffed, because an attacker can suicide attack, then pass the castle to a friend for free to gain protection.

It's complicated, and so far I haven't seen anything remotely close to solving the problem.

Konkistador

Lord Thane just having the devs attention and trying to resolve with the rest of players is much appreciated. Guess the poll will show if there is an appetite to implement a change that removes the point of too many aliances joining together and creating an imbalance that removes the game enjoyment. If most vote yes, then Guess for this point alone maybe we open a forum topic to brainstorm a solution that most accept and devsn are happy and can implement. This would be a great result for the game. Again appreciated for the devs and people taking the time to vote and comment in favour or with critic in order to improve the game🤖

AdinTheDark

Lord Thane

Lord Thane If we got rid of retals, then castle passing is buffed, because an attacker can suicide attack, then pass the castle to a friend for free to gain protection.

I understand that I’m the lone wolf here, but if there was no protection, this wouldn’t be an issue.

Furthermore, no protection will prevent people from “full send” 100% of the time. The key will be focusing and balancing races accordingly. If you want a more war-like experience, all times should be lowered. Consider building times for armies, weapons, and even technologies. But where does this hypothetical protection come from? Are the gods against you getting hit twice? Perhaps you should have invested more in defense and such. Currently, the battle system is almost designed to be either all or none unless you know your army’s capabilities or are just farming and hoping you don’t get hit.

Lord Thane

AdinTheDark I guess protection could be from gods, or it's a placeholder for things like armies marching and staging for battle or something. It's fantasy, so you can pick whatever floats your boat lol

I think no protection would be a lot of fun, but also imagine it would be extremely high anxiety and fast paced as you could easily get wiped out in 1 tick. There'd have to be some kind of mechanism to replace protection that worked similarly to prevent you getting obliterated in a single tick. What that would look like, idk.

Sayer

Lord Thane What of attacks were no longer instant. "My lord, scouts have reported a large enemy force heading in this direction. They estimate that on their current course they could reach our kingdoms outer walls in under 12 days"

Give people some time to prep, send out army and give away a castle to keep losses low, cast spells, etc etc. Someone attacking would be left with less defense but there would be no immediate indicator with land/castle changes in KHoF. If it takes 18-24 hours for troops to return home, half of that would be marching toward the enemy kingdom.

Then you could add some in process strategy if your intel was off and its too late to pull back completely. Something like "early retreat" to take no losses or mid battle strategies if army comps suddenly change from last intel.

Dramatic changes, but could be fun

Thecatman

I remember back in the day WoW had a system called resolve or something like that for tanks that gave them more damage/health as they took more damage. With no protection maybe we would need something like that, a stacking buff for your kingdom or big nerf for attackers that might deter being hit over and over

Lord Thane

trupheus I'm starting to think there's no fix for this, it's like the 3 body problem, but for asshole gamers.

Maybe getting rid of retals entirely really is the only fix. Then there's no pre-re. Without pre-re, there's not really any advantage to castle pass...

I guess we need to put it up for vote, time to kill retals lol

Doh, I just reminded myself from a previous comment about the downside to removing retals, which is people will suicide and castle pass for protection. Always a catch with every idea, because ppl will find a way to exploit it.

CyberPtra

Lord Thane
Thoughts on my post in the other thread?

trupheus

Lord Thane

Our very own Kobayashi Maru. This is a no win situation. I think the great creators of the game need to figure out what they want. Tell the community to deal with it.

Lord Thane

CyberPtra it's a no for me, way too out of the box, war wouldn't be recognizable 😵‍💫

CyberPtra

Lord Thane
Fair enough. I did say it was an out of the box idea ;p

Lord Thane

trupheus maybe this is the ticket:
https://forum.thardferr.com/d/253-consequent-attacks-on-same-tick/13