@Konkistador voting no on all but the last one. I don’t play in Lithar. Very few play in the race provinces. That limits all of your proposals. What if I’m in a prov alone? Yes, I use the Market, but I still have contacts that I would like to cast on or trade with. Putting all of these in place would be a hindrance on players in lone provinces. Thardferr is a community. It has a social aspect to it. Let’s not limit it, if possible.

Lord Thane agree might be the most complicated point to implement. However in my view also the one that needs more attention as the imbalance of having 2 3 hits gb on a kingdom to take a retal from 70% of the provinces and some multis working together makes it nearly impossible for the defending team. So how the implementation looks like I don't really care as long as it takes away the point of having massive aliances. Exception for Naps. Guess could make a retal only go thru if the previous attack is made by the same province otherwise the protection will still be valid and therefore the retal rights cannot be used until the Kingdom is opp or a follow up attack prevail is made by a prove kingdom. Or some suggestion I've seen before. That provinces are officially in war and becomes a protected province vs province. Whatever is done to remove this will be welcomed in my eyes.

      Konkistador could make a retal only go thru if the previous attack is made by the same province otherwise the protection will still be valid and therefore the retal rights cannot be used until the Kingdom is oop

      This would encourage castle passing = attacker takes a castle from you, then has their buddy in a different province attack them, now your retal is void and the attacker is safe from all.

      I guess castle passing is a response to pre-re. To prevent pre-re, you castle pass so you'll only face a retal. If you don't castle pass, then you face the possible pre-re. If we add functions to discourage just one, then the other will flourish to either benefit the attack or defender.

      If we got rid of retals, then castle passing is buffed, because an attacker can suicide attack, then pass the castle to a friend for free to gain protection.

      It's complicated, and so far I haven't seen anything remotely close to solving the problem.

          Lord Thane just having the devs attention and trying to resolve with the rest of players is much appreciated. Guess the poll will show if there is an appetite to implement a change that removes the point of too many aliances joining together and creating an imbalance that removes the game enjoyment. If most vote yes, then Guess for this point alone maybe we open a forum topic to brainstorm a solution that most accept and devsn are happy and can implement. This would be a great result for the game. Again appreciated for the devs and people taking the time to vote and comment in favour or with critic in order to improve the game🤖

            Lord Thane

            Lord Thane If we got rid of retals, then castle passing is buffed, because an attacker can suicide attack, then pass the castle to a friend for free to gain protection.

            I understand that I’m the lone wolf here, but if there was no protection, this wouldn’t be an issue.

            Furthermore, no protection will prevent people from “full send” 100% of the time. The key will be focusing and balancing races accordingly. If you want a more war-like experience, all times should be lowered. Consider building times for armies, weapons, and even technologies. But where does this hypothetical protection come from? Are the gods against you getting hit twice? Perhaps you should have invested more in defense and such. Currently, the battle system is almost designed to be either all or none unless you know your army’s capabilities or are just farming and hoping you don’t get hit.

                  AdinTheDark I guess protection could be from gods, or it's a placeholder for things like armies marching and staging for battle or something. It's fantasy, so you can pick whatever floats your boat lol

                  I think no protection would be a lot of fun, but also imagine it would be extremely high anxiety and fast paced as you could easily get wiped out in 1 tick. There'd have to be some kind of mechanism to replace protection that worked similarly to prevent you getting obliterated in a single tick. What that would look like, idk.

                      I remember back in the day WoW had a system called resolve or something like that for tanks that gave them more damage/health as they took more damage. With no protection maybe we would need something like that, a stacking buff for your kingdom or big nerf for attackers that might deter being hit over and over

                      Lord Thane

                      Light bulb. What if there was a way to tell?

                      Add in a "war party". Sends like a KM. You say what you're contributing and who hits first. Those are the only want to take retals. So if a random makes the hit, you don't get to retal.

                      Dang it, I just talked myself out of my idea because it would be so easy to hit and castle pass right away so that the retal can never be taken.

                          trupheus I'm starting to think there's no fix for this, it's like the 3 body problem, but for asshole gamers.

                          Maybe getting rid of retals entirely really is the only fix. Then there's no pre-re. Without pre-re, there's not really any advantage to castle pass...

                          I guess we need to put it up for vote, time to kill retals lol

                          Doh, I just reminded myself from a previous comment about the downside to removing retals, which is people will suicide and castle pass for protection. Always a catch with every idea, because ppl will find a way to exploit it.

                              Lord Thane

                              Our very own Kobayashi Maru. This is a no win situation. I think the great creators of the game need to figure out what they want. Tell the community to deal with it.

                                  Lord Thane What of attacks were no longer instant. "My lord, scouts have reported a large enemy force heading in this direction. They estimate that on their current course they could reach our kingdoms outer walls in under 12 days"

                                  Give people some time to prep, send out army and give away a castle to keep losses low, cast spells, etc etc. Someone attacking would be left with less defense but there would be no immediate indicator with land/castle changes in KHoF. If it takes 18-24 hours for troops to return home, half of that would be marching toward the enemy kingdom.

                                  Then you could add some in process strategy if your intel was off and its too late to pull back completely. Something like "early retreat" to take no losses or mid battle strategies if army comps suddenly change from last intel.

                                  Dramatic changes, but could be fun

                                      Sayer that sounds really fun, adds lots of interesting dynamics. I wonder how badly it might deter people from sending attacks though - not knowing if the defender has generals coming back that might mess things up, or worrying about them building enough defense to overcome the attack.

                                      It has good merit for continued discussion though, figuring out how people would abuse it, what safeguards we can come up with to keep it fair and also how it can encourage attackers to make attacks.

                                          Lord Thane I think it would make truesights much more valuable. You'd almost need to scout an opponent over time to get a good read on numbers.

                                          Would also make change efficacy of castle passing. Maybe retal rights have quicker march time due to bloodlust

                                            Im enjoying some of these ideas. I think the future of warzone could be shorter rounds with different rules. One with instant attacks, the other one with these new suggestions, etc.

                                            Hard to code, but fk the devs right?

                                              Jaxx

                                              Can confirm devs get fkd.

                                              Sayer

                                              I prefer my dopamine hits to be instant.

                                              This does have me thinking about variable army return times. everyone defaults at 24, then via technology capable of unlocking variable army return time called Marching Orders. This tech gives players the option to select an army return rate as quick as 3 and as long as 18. Once Marching Orders is unlocked, the total upkeep cost of an attack is based on 18 hours, but if you choose a time less than 18 hours, the cost per tick is increased. Generals are not affected by this, they refuse to march faster.

                                              example, I send out an army that after the battle has an upkeep of 100 food and 100 iron over 18 ticks. With the new tech, I am able to speed that up to 3. Marching Orders have to be given when the attack is sent.

                                              AAAAAAAAAAND with this make gate elf only.